Do I want to buy a boat?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Other pros and cons I am considering are- If just chartering, I would have options like the Greek Islands or Croatia, Sardinia, whatever. I don't see us being ready to do Atlantic crossings in a boat we could afford, but maybe I am being too timid there. Also, when chartering, I am in a boat much nicer than I could afford, if more impersonal. Example- last trip was 10 days in a Lagoon 40 just a few years old with 6 or us. I like the cats for the spaciousness but I don't see any -of any age- that I could afford.

Your cost numbers are very helpful, as I am trying to calculate owning a boat for the next 10 years, sailing to the Caribbean maybe every year or two for a few months, and sailing home plus slip rental the rest of the time. Compare that to how often I could fly to the Caribbean and charter for a month or three over the same 10 years.

As an owner, I could also sail along the Gulf Coast at will, marina hopping along FL, maybe go to the Bahamas once in a while. I am thinking a one way trip from New Orleans to St. Thomas would be what, 2 weeks or so? Plus I could use the boat as canyonbat suggests, and go for an evening sail whenever I wanted, or just invite friends to the dock.

You could maybe split your idea into two missions, as well. Buy/own (maintain) your own local boat for nearby coastal sailing, and then occasionally charter in the island, too. Your own boat then doesn't necessarily have to be so grand, to make that work...

-Chris

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Wow, serious food for thought. Thank you all.

I did not hope to actually make money on the boat when not in use, more get it to pay for itself, but maybe just keeping it down there cheaply is more realistic.

Maybe fractional ownership is the way to go. How does that work?

BTW, I am pretty handy and do enjoy tinkering a bit, but I wouldn't want to have to work on it all the time. Maybe I should target a bigger budget for the boat. What say, 25K-35K? I would want autopilot and AC, probably a freezer or refrig.

Many ways to go for fractional https://www.google.com/search?q=frac...utf-8&oe=utf-8
If going private it's usually 2 to 6 people sharing costs and time of the boat, similar to a time share. Search classified adds from Craigslist to yachtworld, to magazines.

[RedHerring]

We own a 21' racing boat with my brother. Based on that experience and so called "common sense", I would never be brave enough to "go fractional" on a cruising boat ownership with someone I found on the internets.

[JPA Cate]

Strong willed people is okay, but they need good conflict resolution skills*, and a proper contract so that expectations are carefully spelled out.

Ann

*It's easy to check, just take an opposite opinion to them and see how they handle it.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Bullshooter,

Sorry, mate, you're dreaming. Boats are holes in the water into which you throw money. An old boat isn't going to earn money in the off season.

Unless you're the kind of guy who loves tinkering, a good DIYer, you don't want a boat that old or needing that much input from you. It can nickle and dime you to utter exasperation, if you are, but put you in the poor house effectively, if you have to hire everything done.

It's not nearly as easy as buying and taking care of a used car, plus there are ancillary costs, too.

Ann

Originally Posted by 30yearslater

The price range you are entertaining for that size boat will lead to broken dreams. I worked in a low end marina for four years and learned from others how not to do it. Rule of four: 1) First owner buys project boat. Great expectations turn to a whole lot of work and money. Disillusion soon follows. Sell boat at a loss. 2) Second owner buys. Repeat. 3) Third owner buys. Abandons boat. 4) Strip boat and bust it up. I bought a 27' project boat knowing this. $6,800.00. After 2 years and another $19,000.00 I have essentially a new boat with a full set of new sails. Just some insight into a restoration for your consideration. Here is a link to my obsessive restoration to consider: And so it begins | SailboatOwners.com Forums

Sorry folks...but I'll have to break the mold here. Although some of this is true in a very large percentage, it's not always this way. I have rebuilt many "hard luck" boats. Usually quality ones which are popular and bring a good price when in good shape and turn-key. Generally for 1/3 of there aforementioned condition. Usually 1-2 year turn around time and a few thousand dollars. I hang onto them for a few years or more and sell them, usually to dabble back into real-estate, then wait for another boat to come along. I have done this with four F/G boats and four houses and came out pretty well. With the boats I have made a couple of bucks but not much.
I built two steel sailboats of my own and they didn't do too well getting rid of them but hey, learned some good skills.
People argue of the time I spent rebuilding them but I have to point out that if you enjoy this work (life style) you'd do it for free anyways. But to argue back...what value do I get back in countless sunsets and camaraderie with like minded mates.

[alansmith]

Celestial, point well taken. My dad always tried to get me involved with learning mechanical skills when I was a kid. Had no interest. Now I have rebuilt three houses and self taught carpentry, electrical, drywall, paint, flooring, doors, windows, and tile. Did it out of necessity. I appreciate the ability that I have skills now. I love what I am able to create. So, when I read what U said I totally understand where u r coming from.

[RedHerring]

> if you enjoy this work (life style)
... then by all means buy yourself a project boat. Most people who do that, would actually prefer sailing to sanding gelcoat and other forms of boat yoga.

[Celestialsailor]

I do plenty of sailing. Wasting money?...not so much. I'd rather own a hih end boat that needs work rather than a low end boat that doesn't. A lot of the cruisers I run into are very self sufficient. But to each his own.

[30yearslater]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Sorry folks...but I'll have to break the mold here. Although some of this is true in a very large percentage, it's not always this way. I have rebuilt many "hard luck" boats. Usually quality ones which are popular and bring a good price when in good shape and turn-key. Generally for 1/3 of there aforementioned condition. Usually 1-2 year turn around time and a few thousand dollars. I hang onto them for a few years or more and sell them, usually to dabble back into real-estate, then wait for another boat to come along. I have done this with four F/G boats and four houses and came out pretty well. With the boats I have made a couple of bucks but not much.
I built two steel sailboats of my own and they didn't do too well getting rid of them but hey, learned some good skills.
People argue of the time I spent rebuilding them but I have to point out that if you enjoy this work (life style) you'd do it for free anyways. But to argue back...what value do I get back in countless sunsets and camaraderie with like minded mates.

I think we qualify as 1%ers in regard to finished restorations. Oh the horror. The plus side is when you do a restoration the boat is imparted with a soul. The other huge plus is you know every aspect of that particular boat in intimate detail. Very handy when something seems amiss. The other great thing is all the weaknesses in the original design can be corrected.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Sorry folks...but I'll have to break the mold here. Although some of this is true in a very large percentage, it's not always this way. I have rebuilt many "hard luck" boats. Usually quality ones which are popular and bring a good price when in good shape and turn-key. Generally for 1/3 of there aforementioned condition. Usually 1-2 year turn around time and a few thousand dollars. I hang onto them for a few years or more and sell them, usually to dabble back into real-estate, then wait for another boat to come along. I have done this with four F/G boats and four houses and came out pretty well. With the boats I have made a couple of bucks but not much.
I built two steel sailboats of my own and they didn't do too well getting rid of them but hey, learned some good skills.
People argue of the time I spent rebuilding them but I have to point out that if you enjoy this work (life style) you'd do it for free anyways. But to argue back...what value do I get back in countless sunsets and camaraderie with like minded mates.

Can hard luck boats be bought and restored/reconditioned with hundreds of hours of sweat equity? Of course, but that is not the question.The OP is retiring, and is buying Casey's book to help him shop. He has not built any steel boats on his own, and clearly does not have the knowledge and skills that you do. Your experience is pretty much irrelevant to this specific discussion.

[morrchr1]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

Great info, keep it coming.

OK, we looked at a nice '80 C&C 34 today, but my wife instantly said it was too small, especially if friends joined us. I had told her to go down below and imagine spending weeks on the boat at a time. I had to agree with her. Of course then I read that they rarely come, which does seem likely. Our sons would probably come, but we would pay their way.

I'd say now we are looking for a great value gem in the 38-40 foot range. Would $30-40K be a budget where we could get something that would not need another 30-40 K in repair? Assuming we have a year to look. The posters who gave examples of their repair expenses were very helpful.

Bull, I have been looking and have similar requirements as you. My budget is 20-30K, so higher but looking for a boat in good shape and already have most of the equipment I want installed, though I will probably have to replace/repair some of it. My wife loves to sail but I would need a decent amount of comforts to get her to jump on for more than a week and it not be uncomfortable right now. Also having to consider kids, though ours will be brought up owning the boat so I'm having to think about them growing into it.

Personally I don't think you need to go quite that big, but newer. the interior layout of boats vastly improved in the late 80's-early 90's from what I can see. Hunter was one of the first to make that change and then most of the production boats followed.

Look at the Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau etc. boats from 1988-1995 from about 33-36 ft. in length. If the boat has a "Mark II" or something else to delineate versions, look at the second or later ones. In many cases these boats are shallower draft, larger cockpit, and have full aft cabins as the main cabin. For me height is an issue (I'm 6'3") and several of these boats also meet that requirement. The biggest thing is that they are still old enough to be affordable, but with the modern layout.

I'm about a year out from being able to pull the trigger (damn me for thinking an expensive wedding was a good idea!) but after doing some looking and going to a few boat shows, this is the category of boat that I have found checks by far the most boxes.

Here's an example, though I wouldn't touch that motor!:
1991 Hunter 33.5 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

And here's the search I update often that's restricted to the gulf area, now just go buy the damn thing before I'm looking next year!

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...dedSelected=-1

If anyone knows a realistic estimate for how long it might take to sail from N.O. to St. Thomas, please advise.

I'm also very interested in this from people's experience. It would seem to be about 2 weeks of sailing (assuming an average of 5 knots) plus maybe stops at the keys, Anguilla, PR?

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by 30yearslater

I think we qualify as 1%ers in regard to finished restorations. Oh the horror. The plus side is when you do a restoration the boat is imparted with a soul. The other huge plus is you know every aspect of that particular boat in intimate detail. Very handy when something seems amiss. The other great thing is all the weaknesses in the original design can be corrected.

Originally Posted by Suijin

Can hard luck boats be bought and restored/reconditioned with hundreds of hours of sweat equity? Of course, but that is not the question.The OP is retiring, and is buying Casey's book to help him shop. He has not built any steel boats on his own, and clearly does not have the knowledge and skills that you do. Your experience is pretty much irrelevant to this specific discussion.

I truly do understand what the OP was getting at. I just wanted to clarify a mention of "a boat is a hole in the water" thing. I think I did and that was not the case for everyone.
As far as skill, I had little in the way of boats when I started in 1975. It was the boats that taught me, not some classroom. It's a long road and not for everyone.
But back to the OP. Maybe he could have the best of both worlds. That is to have a smaller sailboat in his home waters and charter a boat in more exotic places a couple of times a year.

[Bullshooter]

Good stuff. Thanks morrchr that is helpful. I am 6'2" but shrinking little by little!

I enjoy reading the variety of responses and opinions.

Some have suggested a best of both worlds. Currently I am leaning towards a hybrid of options. I could start with a month long charter with my wife to see how that goes. Maybe in a medium sized monohull. The longest we have done is 10 days on spacious Lagoon cats. Keeping my eyes and ears open for a super value boat for saIe, I could either join the local yacht club, which reportedly lets you reserve and sail their fleet of boats, up to an Easterly 30, or convince either of my 2 neighbors who rarely use their boats to let me split slip fees in turn for sailing rights.

But I almost have enough $ estimates on different options to do some cost comparisons as planned.

[miwallace]

I have a very nice boat to offer

[Mirage35]

FWIW see the responses to a similar question I posted a while ago:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...er-154565.html

Not quite the same situation but close enough. In my circumstances I've decided to go with charter for the foreseeable future, but continually revisit the question