Finance/Repo Advice Needed.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by rognvald

To destroy a lifetime of outstanding credit (800 credit score) because he is receiving bad advice is a mistake.

I think OP is more concerned with losing a lifetime of work / savings than any credit scores, especially as sounds like he does not have the years left to start over - bit of a pyrrhic victory to end up flat broke with good credit ....albeit with no income even that will be of little use.

Not sure who was making the moral comments earlier in the thread - but made me smile . Doing the "right thing" is a luxury that cannot always be afforded, this be business anyway - all's fair until someone with a gun says it is not.........no matter what the paperwork says , especially when playing for keeps as OP is.

[psneeld]

[QUOTE=rognvald;1324915]The Internet is always right! At the click of a button, you can solve any problem in your life. But, advice is like oats: do you want them fresh from the bag . . . or after they've been through the horse? The choice is yours.

I have had/have real time personal experience..been to bankruptcy lawyers, auto/boat loan people, my banks and have gotten the same advice as several friends have.

That's why I posted that the example I linked was just one of many that agree.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I think OP is more concerned with losing a lifetime of work / savings than any credit scores, especially as sounds like he does not have the years left to start over - bit of a pyrrhic victory to end up flat broke with good credit ....albeit with no income even that will be of little use.

Not sure who was making the moral comments earlier in the thread - but made me smile . Doing the "right thing" is a luxury that cannot always be afforded, this be business anyway - all's fair until someone with a gun says it is not.........no matter what the paperwork says , especially when playing for keeps as OP is.

I agree with the business point...you pay a large down payment as part of the "shared" risk that you eventually will pay off the loan. While you are paying...nearly everything is profit to the lender...if you default they keep 100% of your down payment...so your loss is always 100% or greater...often theirs is much less...because regulation allows them to loan to many people and spread their risk...even more profit.

So for all those that try being responsible and get caught in the middle of financial issues...it's hardly a moral issue with not repaying a bank..it's business..one that they are good enough at to be considered "untouchable even for crimes" by the US Government....

Still think it's moral versus business?

[hellosailor]

Sailorchick-
"Just like its completely legal for Apple, GM, etc. to hide hundred of billions in profits in offshore subsidiary's from the IRS" and as you later restate, they're just hiding the sax funds? That's just wrong both ways. Those corporations aren't hiding anything. They are following the tax code completely. The tax code says that if they bring the money home, they have to pay taxes on it. So they are leaving it where it is, which reduces their tax liability, which increases their potential or real profits, which is what they are REQUIRED to do for their shareholders.
Whether the tax code or rates are fair or unfair, has got nothing to do with the fact that these companies are following all the rules. If the rules were written by idiots--that's the fault of everyone who voted for them, isn't it?

[Capt Phil]

DOJ is right IMO... the guy is retired! So what if his credit score goes to 0... he is in his twilight years and won't be doing many big financial deals from here on out, I wouldn't think. He should do all he can to hang on to his floating home, stay in touch with the holder of the note to show good faith and pay what he can afford and still live.
My guess is the financial institution would be inclined to write off the debt if they can't find the asset but he has to live with himself and sounds like the type who wouldn't run out on a debt. Maybe I have an odd perspective but I think must folks are basically honest or want to be given half a chance. Phil

[ohdrinkboy]

The OPs credit score will be in the dumper no matter what. Repossession (even voluntary), charge off, bankruptcy all will kill his score. Bankruptcy may give him a chance to keep his boat as it is his home. Bankruptcy judges are pretty good at letting people keep their homes. If he can drag out the bankruptcy he might make it to the insurance settlement. Once in bankruptcy, the lender can't touch your boat. They have to go through bankruptcy court.

[hellosailor]

"My guess is the financial institution would be inclined to write off the debt if they can't find the asset"
But Phil, they don't have to find it. It will find them.
Remember this is a US-flagged vessel in a foreign land. Doesn't matter which one or where, within a year someone will need papers, a visa, clearance, some type of border control. If it comes home...still has to clear in. If it goes elsewhere...again, as soon as it hits a border control, it should come up on a list as stolen, to be seized and crew detained. And at that point, it will find the lender.
The details may differ, the picture will be the same.

The OP and his attorney are working it through channels, the rest is just a question of how smart the attorney is, and how the dice roll.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by ohdrinkboy

The OPs credit score will be in the dumper no matter what. Repossession (even voluntary), charge off, bankruptcy all will kill his score. Bankruptcy may give him a chance to keep his boat as it is his home. Bankruptcy judges are pretty good at letting people keep their homes. If he can drag out the bankruptcy he might make it to the insurance settlement. Once in bankruptcy, the lender can't touch your boat. They have to go through bankruptcy court.

When I went to the bankruptcy lawyer..He made it sound like a boat is NOWAY gonna be spared...home or not...also if the boat is worth more than XX $ for a single person...something more for married nut not 2XX if I remember correctly..and for me it was about 23,000 was the max equity I could have..If I owned it outright I was screwed...if it was $1000000 dollar boat and all of it was owed...I could probably keep it.

Bankruptcy is hardly ever black and white...lawyers are the norm as you can get skirewed.....

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Sailorchick-
"Just like its completely legal for Apple, GM, etc. to hide hundred of billions in profits in offshore subsidiary's from the IRS" and as you later restate, they're just hiding the sax funds? That's just wrong both ways. Those corporations aren't hiding anything. They are following the tax code completely. The tax code says that if they bring the money home, they have to pay taxes on it. So they are leaving it where it is, which reduces their tax liability, which increases their potential or real profits, which is what they are REQUIRED to do for their shareholders.
Whether the tax code or rates are fair or unfair, has got nothing to do with the fact that these companies are following all the rules. If the rules were written by idiots--that's the fault of everyone who voted for them, isn't it?

Oh your quite correct. They all play by the rules written by elected business men. That's why GE pays a whopping 1.8% tax rate. I guess my point is there is built in inequities in the tax codes. corporations get tax breaks and loopholes that the average joe can only dream about. Then we wonder why the country goes deeper in debt year after year. Lets make it so everyone and every business pays the same tax on all income. But thats not going to happen.

Actually voters have very little say so on who gets chosen to run for office anymore. Big money runs the elections now a days with hundreds of millions in ads with only a small bases in reality. Does anyone really believe that Obama or Romney were the best choices the parties could come up with. Good lord nether can find their butt in the dark.

(Hi to my friends at the NSA)..

Actually president is about the only choice folks really get to make sort of. Congress for the most part is brought and paid for by the super pacs no matter who wins, for the most part. So I don't think its actually the voters fault anymore. BTW I don't vote, as its to me, a pointless act. The government is not by and for the people, but by and for the corporations. Look at all the laws being passed over the last 10-20 years. very little has anything to do about the people. Other then increasing taxes. Gee obamacare just gives more money to the insurance industry. A wind fall. For the people, not really...

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by psneeld

When I went to the bankruptcy lawyer..He made it sound like a boat is NOWAY gonna be spared...home or not...also if the boat is worth more than XX $ for a single person...something more for married nut not 2XX if I remember correctly..and for me it was about 23,000 was the max equity I could have..If I owned it outright I was screwed...if it was $1000000 dollar boat and all of it was owed...I could probably keep it.

Bankruptcy is hardly ever black and white...lawyers are the norm as you can get skirewed.....

It really does depend of the state your in as each states bankruptcy laws are different. Some states do have pretty low equity limits on the homestead civil exemption. If you have a homestead exemption with the county on the boat, its a home. The US government also considers a liveaboard boat a home/vacation home for tax purposes.

Even the $23k might work as again your talking auction price, not the price you can sell the boat for on the open market.

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Whether the tax code or rates are fair or unfair, has got nothing to do with the fact that these companies are following all the rules. If the rules were written by idiots--that's the fault of everyone who voted for them, isn't it?

HS the rules are not written by idiots. They are bought by extremely smart people who have purchased them thru campaign contributions (used to be called bribes) to PACs. The rules are designed to maximize profit and minimize chances for the individual.

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

.

(Hi to my friends at the NSA)..

SailorChic I agree with your politics but I really enjoy your sense of humor.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

It really does depend of the state your in as each states bankruptcy laws are different. Some states do have pretty low equity limits on the homestead civil exemption. If you have a homestead exemption with the county on the boat, its a home. The US government also considers a liveaboard boat a home/vacation home for tax purposes.

Even the $23k might work as again your talking auction price, not the price you can sell the boat for on the open market.

Federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction over bankruptcy cases. This means that a bankruptcy case cannot be filed in a state court

Bankruptcy

Not sure what you mean by states having control in bankruptcy....

The $23000 is a bankruptcy defined number...has nothing to do with sale or what the boat is worth...etc...except if the court deems your boat has more equity than that...it goes.

[psneeld]

The First Preferred Ship's Mortgage

A First Preferred Ship's Mortgage is a mortgage recorded against a vessel documented with the United States Coast Guard. It is protected under the Ship's Mortgage Act of 1920, and takes precedence over all liens other than preferred Maritime Liens. The First Preferred Ship's Mortgage secures not only the note described, but also any future extensions or advances against the vessel.
As Mortagee of the vessel you may withhold disbursing of the funds until the documentation agent has received all papers necessary to file the First Preferred Ship's Mortgage and have the right to see all papers pertaining to the vessel. You may also require, from time to time, additional statements from the owner to further guarantee the security of the note. If you feel a change in the borrower's financial position endangers the debt, you have the ability to call the note.
The First Preferred Ship's Mortgage assures the mortgagee the owner will properly insure the vessel and refrain from encumbering the vessel. The mortgagee will be notified if the vessel is seized, libeled, or detained by any person or country within 15 days and discharge it from same. With the First Preferred Ship's Mortgage, the owner will comply with all state, local, and U.S. laws and keep vessel document current and on board the vessel, along with a copy of the Mortgage. The mortgage is assured the owner will not leave the country without intending to return, abandon the vessel or sell, mortgage, or charter the vessel without the consent of the mortgagee.

The First Preferred Ship's Mortgage

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Federal courts have exclusive jurisdiction over bankruptcy cases. This means that a bankruptcy case cannot be filed in a state court

Bankruptcy

Not sure what you mean by states having control in bankruptcy....

The $23000 is a bankruptcy defined number...has nothing to do with sale or what the boat is worth...etc...except if the court deems your boat has more equity than that...it goes.

Yes its under federal courts. But you get to chose either the federal exemptions or the state exemptions. They are not the same thing and vary state to state. Some states are generous. Some states are not

From the US courts:
"Among the schedules that an individual debtor will file is a schedule of "exempt" property. The Bankruptcy Code allows an individual debtor (4) to protect some property from the claims of creditors because it is exempt under federal bankruptcy law or under the laws of the debtor's home state. 11 U.S.C. § 522(b). Many states have taken advantage of a provision in the Bankruptcy Code that permits each state to adopt its own exemption law in place of the federal exemptions. In other jurisdictions, the individual debtor has the option of choosing between a federal package of exemptions or the exemptions available under state law. Thus, whether certain property is exempt and may be kept by the debtor is often a question of state law. The debtor should consult an attorney to determine the exemptions available in the state where the debtor lives."

So it is important to know what your state civil exemptions are as they are the same ones applied in Bankruptcy..

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Yes its under federal courts. But you get to chose either the federal exemptions or the state exemptions. They are not the same thing and vary state to state. Some states are generous. Some states are not

From the US courts:
"Among the schedules that an individual debtor will file is a schedule of "exempt" property. The Bankruptcy Code allows an individual debtor (4) to protect some property from the claims of creditors because it is exempt under federal bankruptcy law or under the laws of the debtor's home state. 11 U.S.C. § 522(b). Many states have taken advantage of a provision in the Bankruptcy Code that permits each state to adopt its own exemption law in place of the federal exemptions. In other jurisdictions, the individual debtor has the option of choosing between a federal package of exemptions or the exemptions available under state law. Thus, whether certain property is exempt and may be kept by the debtor is often a question of state law. The debtor should consult an attorney to determine the exemptions available in the state where the debtor lives."

So it is important to know what your state civil exemptions are as they are the same ones applied in Bankruptcy..

Thanks..hope I never need to even consider it again.....

The lawyer I went to see made it sound like NJ was pretty hardlined about it....usually they joke about too bad you still weren't in XXX...but this guy was all fear mongering...no laughs that day