First time buyer - Gib'sea? Najad?

[flyingsideways]

Hi all,

First time poster looking for advice. Even though me and my better half have very limited experience sailing, we're seriously considering taking the plunge and purchasing a sailboat. We live in Norway and plan on taking small steps, so the first year will probably involve coastal cruising in calmer waters. When the right moment comes we'd love to take trips to Denmark and probably across the Baltic etc.

We appreciate comfort, so generally speaking bigger is better, but we're on a budget. So far the contenders are:

Gib'sea 43 2001
This seems to be a good deal, but there's little info to be found regarding Gib'seas from that era, other than that it was owned by Dufour representing their charter market offer and production has been discontined. According to current owner the boat was in charter with "Moorings" in the carib until 5 years ago. Lewmar winches/hatches, Sparcraft mast/boom, Profurl roller furling. Yanmar 56 bhp engine 4105 hrs on the clock with regular filter, oil & impeller replacements.

Najad 37 1981
I haven't yet talked to the currnet owner, but seems a fair deal compared to other Najads from the early 80ies.

There's a few other boats we're considering, but for the time being these seem most value for money from a newbie's perspective. Any thoughts are welcome.

TIA

[boatman61]

Go Gibsea....
Unless marina costs are a consideration....

[Katiusha]

Saw two boats washed on the lee beach after a F9 winter storm in Turkey. One was newer Beneteau, the other one was an older Gib'sea.

Beneteau was washed out onto a sand patch and had rudder stock bent, rudder split, keel joint coming apart, and some damage to the hull. There was water in the hull.

Gib'sea was washed over a rocky outcrop onto a beach covered in small stones. ZERO damage anywhere we could see (and we spent an least an hour going around it and digging into the beach - just couldn't believe it!) Lots of respect for Gib'seas now.

[stevensuf]

I own a gibsea 43, i know which id go for. bigger is better!

[Pblais]

Being 20 years newer the refitting might be easier on the Gib Sea. I like the look of them too. A 1981 is going to need some overhauls and you could spend 30% of purchase price and worse it might be a slow process of say a few years getting it all sorted out. Thge electrical side would be worth a look. I'm almost finished on a 1991 and the boat was in great shape when we got it but stuff needed to be tended to. It's both money as well as time required.

The Najad won't win any ugly boat contests anyplace you go and are known for build quality. It's why the prices are normally higher. I've always thought well of the look. Just don't fall in love too soon!

I would continue to look at boats. I would actually go see them and not go by pictures. Also specs on paper and theoretical numbers are not much help in used boats. What they all are like is not what the one is like. In the end you need to sort out the true condition of each boat and try to see how much it will cost to get them "right" plus what they cost to purchase.

Boat prices tend to even out with that real total cost. Bargains can easily be money pits. If the boats are not close to home then discount them greatly. Doing work remotely is VERY expensive. Nothing used is "ready to sail"! Most new boats need a while to sort out too! You usally need ti8me to sail them and find the problems. The survey may scare you off a bad boat but it rarely will change your mind once you get that close to falling in love.

Last advice: Find the - Biggest small boat that works!

[flyingsideways]

Thank you all, your replies are much appreciated!

Originally Posted by stevensuf

I own a gibsea 43, i know which id go for. bigger is better!

Great! Which year? Is it a Dufour era boat? Is it also equipped with Sparcraft/Profurl? That worries me a bit, as I can't find much about Sparcraft online, except for some problems with a bending boom on a Hanse model. How does she handle compared to something newer of equal size (Bavarias etc)? Have you had any (major) issues?

[flyingsideways]

Originally Posted by Pblais

I like the look of them too.

Me too. I find it very attractive, especially considering its age and target market. I just found out the Najad has had some major repair done years ago, so that's that I guess.

I have no opportunity to inspect the boat until just prior to a potential purchase, hence getting all possible details in advance is of paramount importance. Any good tips on what exactly to ask for? More pictures is a good start I guess...

[barnakiel]

So much depends on how you want to use the boat and what conditions the respective boats are.

To me (strong bias) it is always hands down Najad. QUALITY. But this only counts to someone who is going to do a lot of sailing or likely to sail in pretty harsh weather (Najad is a Swedish boat, so she is designed and built accordingly).

Without saying, GibSea is the much bigger, much spacier thing: if you have a big family/many sailing friends and if you want to cruise places like Greece or Bahamas then you may be strongly attracted to this one.

The size difference is big and so will differ the annual costs. Najad may be better resale value but GibSea may be the one that will sell easier.

My 2 €cents.
b.

[aluijten]

I'd be reluctant to buy an ex-charter boat. Engine hours are quite high as well.

Chances are that the owners of the Najad took much more care as it was more expensive and not chartered (I presume).

As start boat I would go for the Najad. Because it's smaller it's easier to handle. The only thing to watch out for is the teak deck. If it's old and tired it will be very costly to replace.

Good luck with your hunt!

[barnakiel]

The teak on the Najad looks OK. If the boat spent her life in the North then the teak can have another 20 years in it. Remember they sail 2 months, maintain 10 months - on dry land and under a cover. No guarantees with pictures but the looks are OK.

BTW Bud is bid. Place a reasonable bid and see. Remember if owners are Scandinavian they may have priced her right already - haggle but do not expect wonders.

b.

[flyingsideways]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The teak on the Najad looks OK. If the boat spent her life in the North then the teak can have another 20 years in it. Remember they sail 2 months, maintain 10 months - on dry land and under a cover. No guarantees with pictures but the looks are OK.

BTW Bud is bid. Place a reasonable bid and see. Remember if owners are Scandinavian they may have priced her right already - haggle but do not expect wonders.

b.

As I wrote in one of my earlier posts, the owner of the Najad stated that there has been some major work done on the hull, so I've written it off.

Is it your impression Scandinavians are pricing their boats more realistically from the get-go? If so, what is it based on?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

The teak on the Najad looks OK. If the boat spent her life in the North then the teak can have another 20 years in it. Remember they sail 2 months, maintain 10 months - on dry land and under a cover. No guarantees with pictures but the looks are OK. b.

For a 1981 boat the photos make the Najad look immaculate and I would be delighted to own her. Look at the condition of the engine, surely not original, but then you do get fanatical owners (edit, engine is 1994)

I can see your problem, which one? so to decide you must visit both before bidding.

Pete

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by flyingsideways

1) As I wrote in one of my earlier posts, the owner of the Najad stated that there has been some major work done on the hull, so I've written it off.

2) Is it your impression Scandinavians are pricing their boats more realistically from the get-go? If so, what is it based on?

1) What was the job about?

2) It is not an impression, it is a hard earned knowledge:
- from having a Scandinavian boat bought in a Scandinavian country,
- from living in a Scandinavian country, sailing Scandinavian boats and fixing them for people who have more money, but less time, than me (that's why the have the money!).

b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Pete7

(...) but then you do get fanatical owners (...)

Not so much fanatical as attentive and well off. Boats are generally well taken care of there for a number of reasons: strong boating tradition, high work culture, tendency to maintain and fix rather than discard and buy new, to name a few.

Normally, well priced boats are on the market in the fall and they have new happy owners before early summer.

b.

[flyingsideways]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

1) What was the job about?

No idea. It was described as "major repairs", which is enough to scare me off. If I had experience with boats, I'd ask more questions and make an informed decision. Since I have none, I choose to play it safe, even though it probably seems as jumping to conclusions to a knowledgeable bystander.

Originally Posted by barnakiel

2) It is not an impression, it is a hard earned knowledge:
- from having a Scandinavian boat bought in a Scandinavian country,
- from living in a Scandinavian country, sailing Scandinavian boats and fixing them for people who have more money, but less time, than me (that's why the have the money!).

b.

I've taken a quick look at yachtworld.com, just to get an idea if importing a boat may be a feasible alternative. If it's true what I've read in a post (I believe on this forum) that the majority of boats on said site are 30% or so above selling price, that may be an alternative. Then again, the Scandinavian boat market is still in a recession, and judging from the number of ads on the website I linked to in my first post that have dropped the price during no more than a month or so, I'm willing to speculate that Norwegians are no less opportunistic than Joe average.