Head on collision

[Uricanejack]

The rules, lookout and advice on collision avoidance. Interesting but A little to late.
The OP asked about Insurance.
While interesting and the OP clearly made some mistakes or errors of judgement. The OP will still be covered. After all this is what insurance is for.

The point being the collision already happened. Part of being prepared in addition to learning to sail and the rule's.
You require or at least should consider insurance.
Full
Liability
or
None.
If you have full cover you will be reimbursed for your loss. possibly not quite as fully as you might hope.
Fortunately you will get covered, for poor lookout and poor seamanship and general stupidity.
So who pays fault blame doesn't matter until no claims bonus.

It is possible cover for your loss might be invalidated if you did something illegal like DUI. Or were sailing outside the limits of policy, Or were "operating a commercial voyage"

If you have liability. At least you wont have to pay for the damage you caused.
But your loss would not be covered by your policy.
Then as far as your concerned blame or fault does matter because you want to claim against the other vessels insurance.
Some insurance companies might be nice and negotiate reasonably or you might need a lawyer.

Np insurance, The risk is all on you, you still might be able to make a claim if the fault is on the other vessel.

AS I said earlier the extra bits will depend on the actual policy.

[KWF]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

Well my suspicion is that they are about to tell you to go to hell, reason being that you just had a major accident in broad daylight which is going to be considered 100% preventable which it was.

You are about to answer some hard questions as to why you were not standing a proper watch as you should have been.

As to what your insurance will cover, that is a function of what is in your contract and what coverages you have paid for, the person who can answer this for you is your insurance agent because not all insurance is the same.

First and foremost your responsibility is to your crew, you need to get them where they need to be so they do not wind up stranded.

Second, the boat needs to come out of the water to be inspected, and for the insurance to even be able to have an adjuster look at it.

You are going to probably have to pay for this up front then have the insurance reimburse you when the time comes as that is usually the way it works. Sometimes you can stay on the boat on the hard, so your best bet is going to be looking for boat yards where you can do so.

What you also need to be aware of the fact that after this you may become uninsurable, I am not sure how the European insurance markets work, but in the states that is often the case when you have a rather careless accident.

The only thing that may be your saving grace here is that you were indeed under sail and the other boat was motoring, when the insurance looks at this to find fault they are going to be examining how fast each vessel was going, and what type of vessel each was.

If the other boat was a speed boat that whacked you going 25 knots verses if it was a displacement hull motoring at 6 knots is going to make quite a bit of difference as to if you were in open water or a limited navigation area.

Simply put if it is determined you were on open water with the auto pilot engaged with nothing restricting your navigation ability and you hit another slow moving boat, it is going to look very bad in their eyes because it will be seen as each vessel being irresponsible and not standing a proper watch.

Especially considering that you did not see them coming and there was no attempt to contact the other vessel or to maneuver away from them.

The other factor is going to be determined by the extent of the damage sustained, if both vessels glanced off of each other and need just a bit of paint work, that is different than if there is major structural repairs needed or your rig came down etc the boat may be totaled.

As well if this devolves into a lawsuit, be prepared to have your electronic devices searched, as part of the discovery they are going to demand that you produce your screen names for all of your messenger services, Telegram, Whatsapp, Facebook, Line Etc. as well they will get your phone records to see who you were texting and likely seek your browsing history if they are able to obtain it.

This is because crashes where people were looking at a phone not paying attention to driving have become such an issue.

If that does occur you need to be honest, and you need to retain a lawyer to guide you. Do not delete anything or delete accounts because even though they look deleted on your device with a search warrant they can still get the true history of what you are doing, and then you get in trouble for evidence tampering.

This reply seems more interested in criticizing than helping. If the other boat was motoring that boat should have yielded right of way based on its tack

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by KWF

This reply seems more interested in criticizing than helping. If the other boat was motoring that boat should have yielded right of way based on its tack

This is not correct. There is no such thing as "right of way" under the COLREGS, and no concept like "yielding". Both parties to a crossing at sea are equally responsible for avoiding a collision.

Obviously the OP failed at watchkeeping, and he knows that perfectly well himself. There but for the grace of God go all of us, so everyone benefits from discussing such a learning situation.

Nor should the OP's mistake prevent him for collecting insurance unless his insurance company is crooked (not a rare case, unfortunately). Normally insurance companies deny coverage only in case of GROSS negligence, not ordinary negligence, and an ordinary mistake in watchkeeping should not rise to that level.

Now if he were passed out drunk in his cabin when it happened instead of keeping watch -- that could be different, but this doesn't sound like it was anything like that.

[Renegde_Sailor]

Originally Posted by KWF

This reply seems more interested in criticizing than helping. If the other boat was motoring that boat should have yielded right of way based on its tack

It is the duty of both captains to provide for the safety of their vessel. Right of way is only a guide for what you should do to help determining the best course of action, it doesn't mean you drive your boat into another because they failed to yield to you.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Renegde_Sailor

It is the duty of both captains to provide for the safety of their vessel. Right of way is only a guide for what you should do to help determining the best course of action, it doesn't mean you drive your boat into another because they failed to yield to you.

Again, there is no "right of way" and no "yielding" in the Rules. Standing-on and giving-way are totally different concepts. And those procedures go away when you get close to a collision. It's worth studying the Rules and understanding all this.


But you did understand the main thing, which is both captains are indeed responsible for preventing a collision -- at all times. Collision avoidance at sea is nothing like traffic rules on land. They work according to very different principles.

[Uricanejack]

It is worth while drifting the thread into lessons learned.
Lessons we can all learn. So hopefully not shots at the OP.
The relevant points. As per OP.

Sailing into another boat at full speed.
On a port tack and the other vessel was motoring in almost the opposite direction.
Didn't see each other.
8 hours in on a passage approaching an island and met the only other vessel around.
The other vessel was not on AIS which they were checking frequently.
Since it was early afternoon, They weren't using the radar.
The OP was actually looking straight ahead and saw them at the last second; and tried to turn away,
but the autopilot didn't let the OP turn the wheel.

The collision was head on. It's not a head on situation as per rule 15 its Rule 18 one power vessel one sailing vessel.
Power Give way Sail Stand on.
Should be simple, Unfortunately they didn't see each other. Poor lookout both vessels.
So the lessons here are about keeping a lookout.

It's at the end of a long days sailing, possible fatigue. We are nearly there, we haven't seen many boats. Guard gets let down a bit.
Sometimes keeping a lookout is harder when harder when its really quite than when its really busy. Particularly if you have been doing it for a relatively long time.

The other vessel was not on AIS.
The lesson here AIS does not replace a proper lookout. Not all vessels have AIS. A lot of sailboats have receive only AIS.
AIS is a good tool but it has a very big limitation.

The OP probably thought he was keeping a reasonable lookout. Was checking the AIS. Unfortunately the OP to much trust in the AIS.

Were not using Radar. It might have made a difference. I don't have AIS, I do have a radar. I would most likely not have been using my radar while sailing. Why not?
It uses power and my batteries are old and limited. It came with the boat and is inconveniently located at the chart table.
Radar is an aid to navigation. Radar is an aid to keeping a good lookout. Radar does not replace a good lookout.

Nice day, good weather, good visibility. I can see better than my radar. I don't need it. The radar wouldn't be helping me if it was turning away on its own down by the chart table while i was up in the cockpit.
Personally I would have been doing the same as the OP.

The OP was looking straight ahead. Its obvious with hindsight. We all know you can't see through sails. There is a big blind spot behind the sail.
The other vessel was in the blind spot and not seen until to late.

No doubt if the approaching boat had been seen at an adequate range the collision would have been avoided by the OP.

Before I move on. Autopilot. I dont have one on my boat. How hard is it to change from autopilot to hand steering. Obviously depends on type of steering and autopilot.
If you are using an autopilot its is something anyone in charge of a vessel should be very familiar with. JIK you have to change in a hurry. To avoid something.
Many auto pilots can change course quite quickly if you know how.

The other big point as far as lookout is concerned. The autopilot give's you an extra hand. or replaces a helm. freeing the watchkeeper to keep a better lookout.
The lookout is "not tied to the wheel' the lookout is free to move about and look round obstructions like sails. Or even pop down bellow and have a quick peck at the radar.

So the lesson to be learned is not taking advantage of the autopilot and positioning the lookout to see ahead and all round by being able to move.
Don't just sit in one place. This possibly goes back to it was the end of a long days sailing.

Without an autopilot I often choose to steer from the low side just so i can duck down or lean over and look behind the sails. Off course my boat is not very big.

In the end the last chance to avoid the approaching vessel was possibly lost by the difficulty change over from auto to hand steering.

The OP used the term We. So not knowing crew size assume not alone.
So if you have other people with you, even if they are not sailors ask them to keep an eye out and tell you if they see anything JIK you miss something.
I cant count the number of times I missed seeing something. Fortunately somebody else saw it and asked me about it

Make it a habit to encourage everyone on board to keep an eye out and always thank them for telling you what they see. Even if you had already seen it.

[Kettlewell]

My big takeaway is that cruising sailboats should not have deck-sweeping jibs. Raise the foot up a couple of feet, and use a higher cut jib. I hate deck sweepers for this very reason. Even if you can sit on the low side I find it very tiring on a long run to windward to be constantly straining to see under and around the jib. On some boats you just can't see enough to be safe.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

My big takeaway is that cruising sailboats should not have deck-sweeping jibs. Raise the foot up a couple of feet, and use a higher cut jib. I hate deck sweepers for this very reason. Even if you can sit on the low side I find it very tiring on a long run to windward to be constantly straining to see under and around the jib. On some boats you just can't see enough to be safe.

I have one of those, Its under a pile of crap in the basement.

[JPA Cate]

On our previous boat, a 36 footer, the #2 headsail was a heavy 150, good up to 25 kn on the wind. It was so heavy I had to use the spinnaker pole topping lift to get it out of the boat and on deck to drag forward to hoist it. In use, one had to go forward almost to the headstay to be able to get a good look at what lay hidden by that deck-sweeper. We also had to go forward to skirt the jib. A big pita. But it surely taught us to be vigilant. It was like trying to see through a wall.

Jim's had our sails lifted to clear the lifelines since then.

Ann

[Tin Tin]

Facts of the case are very vague. Likely you will be paying the deductible as you appear to be partly at fault if you answer the claim form honestly. Read your policy document closely use a highlighter, make notes (should have done this when you took out the policy - many don't). I looked up an old interntaional policy I had, and emergency repatriation costs were covered up to a set limit of $200 per person per night for 7 nights (2015). If your policy has this it will spell it out, likely under a section called "Additional Cover" that covers valuables, towing amongst other things.

[massnspace]

In broad daylight!!!

A large genny is NO EXCUSE to not have 100% full situational awareness…luff up at times if needed to get a 360 degree situational understanding. Any prudent mariner does this on instinct.

I can’t even understand how this could happen if there was someone at the wheel….and if they were paying any kind of attention…

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by massnspace

In broad daylight!!!

A large genny is NO EXCUSE to not have 100% full situational awareness…luff up at times if needed to get a 360 degree situational understanding. Any prudent mariner does this on instinct.

I can’t even understand how this could happen if there was someone at the wheel….and if they were paying any kind of attention…

Well, it's never happened to you, that you didn't notice a boat approaching from behind your headsail? Really? I'm sorry to tell you this, but "100% situational awareness" doesn't exist on any boat no matter how sharp the watch.

This happens all the time, in fact. It may take years of sailing experience before you finally fully understand how hard it can be to see another boat behind the headsail and how hard you have to work to gain ADEQUATE situational awareness with a headsail flying.

I've had a few near-misses in my sailing life; I think the OP was unlucky.

It's one reason why I ALWAYS run radar and set guard zones -- just to back up a sharp visual watch.

[massnspace]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, it's never happened to you, that you didn't notice a boat approaching from behind your headsail? Really? I'm sorry to tell you this, but "100% situational awareness" doesn't exist on any boat no matter how sharp the watch.

This happens all the time, in fact. It may take years of sailing experience before you finally fully understand how hard it can be to see another boat behind the headsail and how hard you have to work to gain ADEQUATE situational awareness with a headsail flying.

I've had a few near-misses in my sailing life; I think the OP was unlucky.

It's one reason why I ALWAYS run radar and set guard zones -- just to back up a sharp visual watch.

I never said I have never noticed a boat behind my headsail. I HAVE noticed that type of situation many times. Thousands, probably. But I took action so that there was NEVER any collision. Zero head on collisions on my sailing resume, and it is a long piece of paper….

And I also disagree with the idea that you cannot have 100% situational awareness. Why not?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by massnspace

I never said I have never noticed a boat behind my headsail. I HAVE noticed that type of situation many times. Thousands, probably. But I took action so that there was NEVER any collision. Zero head on collisions on my sailing resume, and it is a long piece of paper….

And I also disagree with the idea that you cannot have 100% situational awareness. Why not?

Because neither you nor any of the rest of us is Argus - all seeing in all directions all the time. 100% situational awareness doesn't exist.

Which you yourself admit when you say you missed a boat behind your headsail, as do I unfortunately and all the rest of us. You saw it in time and took action. Yes, me too - I've never had a collision.

Was it luck? Or infallible situational awareness. Luck 9f course, as we've already demonstrated these were not cases of infallible situational awareness.

Pride goeth before the fall. At least realizing that missing a boat behind a sail is a failure of situational awareness, gives a chance of improving. Complacency can be deadly at sea - "it can't happen to me" are probably the most infamous last words at sea. What happened to the OP could have happened to any of us.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Uricanejack

snip..

The other big point as far as lookout is concerned. The autopilot give's you an extra hand. or replaces a helm. freeing the watchkeeper to keep a better lookout.
The lookout is "not tied to the wheel' the lookout is free to move about and look round obstructions like sails. Or even pop down bellow and have a quick peck at the radar.
..snip

IMHO this is most often false thinking. Being free from the helm you don't pay as much attention to watch keeping as you would while hand steering, especially in low trafic areas. You get distracted as you are not actively occupied in a physical task and get pretty soon sloppy in keeping watch. Besides that autopilot keeps in most conditions straight course, as they are supposed to do and any blind spot stays excactly in place. While hand steering I regularly take a peek on blind spots changing the course a bit to check those spots, no need to for another pair of eyes even when there're others on deck.