How to buy a boat using a broker?

[christofe]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and to keel-boats.
I'm in California looking to buy a boat. I have my mind set on a 40-45foot cruiser, such as a Catalina 42 for example. I am not sure what the protocol is with dealing with a broker. Here's the story: I contacted a broker who showed me a boat that didn't exactly fit what I am looking for. A few of days later saw an add for a boat that looked very appealing. I called the number and they told me to come over and take a look. I went there and told them I already a broker. They told me that they wouldn't work with him because they were considering me as their client since I had come directly to them. And that they wouldn't work with other brokers until the boat had been listed for several weeks.



Is this typical?


Do I have an obligation , moral or otherwise, towards the first broker.


Is there such a thing as a seller's broker VS a Buyer's broker?


Any other thoughts on this?

[Orion Jim]

If you signed no documents you have no obligation to the broker. If you did, now is the time to read it. What you are experiencing is commonplace. A buyers broker will frequently be paid by you as few sellers brokers will split their commissions in a sellers market.

[goboatingnow]

If both brokers are selling brokers, then unless you are in a purchase contract, you are free to move from selling broker to selling broker .

As was said, if you are in a relationship with a purchase broker that’s different and depends on the exact agreement. You are typically paying that broker so you can control the termination

[christofe]

I have no contract with the first one. We just met once when he showed me the first boat. I guess it makes sense not to stay with him if he can only show me a limited number of boats. The whole process is a little obscure to me.

[Cheechako]

Yes that is typical. You dont need to use the first broker and in fact it may cause some problems.
There are "buyers brokers" now days but IMHO they are a waste of time.
-Just make sure any offer you make that the contract allows for you to reject the boat at will, subject to inspection, survey etc. WITH NO PENALTY. You specify the dead line date to reject or approve the inspection in your offer.
-If there are expensive things to be fixed from the inspection, reject the inspection. Then negotiate a new price with a new contract or update the original.
-Be sure to specify a deadline for the seller to accept/reject your counter offer.
-Most often you dont need to pay a high deposit, although they try to get you too. I have bought $250k+ boats with no more than a $5k REFUNDABLE deposit. It's basically just a show of good faith that you are serious.

Remember YOU ARE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT, OFFER WHAT YOU WANT AND IN A MANNER YOU WANT!

[sail sfbay]

Is this typical? Yes

Do I have an obligation, moral or otherwise, towards the first broker. No, unless you have a contract

Is there such a thing as a seller's broker VS a Buyer's broker? Yes, seller's broker is typical. However, I used a San Francisco broker when I purchased my first large powerboat in Huntington Beach and the seller's broker agreed to the arrangement and split the commission.

Any other thoughts on this? Be respectful to the broker since they deal with so many prospective buyers who just want to kick the tires.

[Dooglas]

And when you get that sorted, I would urge you to use a marine title company to handle any actual purchase. For a vessel of this size and value, it is best for the actual business dealings to be handled by someone who really knows what they are doing, i.e. not you and not a broker who is mostly looking out for himself.

[jim King]

Brokers don't like to split commissions so they will tell you if you first contacted them they won't deal with another broker. If you are using a broker have him contact the selling broker direct and set up a walk through or sea trial.
The selling broker may have more incentive to deal with you direct and not split a commission. Depending on the survey you can negotiate a lower price or request repairs. Cost of the survey will be on you so make sure it's worth the price before you pay for the survey. There may be a recent survey done you can review.

[Cheechako]

I also think boat brokers don't like to split commissions. They can be amenable to it, but less likely to go the extra mile, and it's hard to get brokers to do anything much in the first place....

[A la carte]

Christofe:

It's good to see that you desire to be fair. Without knowing all the facts, my suspicion is that you have no moral obligation to the 1st broker who showed you a boat.

A buyer's broker is not typically used when buying a boat. If you respond to an advertised boat by contacting the listing broker, I wouldn't sign a buyer's broker agreement... you're just a shopper. The broker works for the seller, not for the buyer.

In some cases, a buyer may wish to hire a buyer's broker to advise the buyer and find a boat that fits the buyer's requirements. In such a case, how the contract is written becomes quite important. Depending on how the contract is written, you could be required to pay the buyer's broker a fee if you buy ANY boat within a certain period of time. Or, you would be required to pay the buyer's broker if HE found you a boat, but no fee if you found the boat on your own. Or, you might be required to buy a certain boat at a certain price if the broker was successful at finding you one for sale. It all depends on how the buyer's broker contract is written.

I suspect that you simply looked at a boat and did not sign a buyer's broker contract.

Good luck on your purchase and welcome to the forum.

[jmschmidt]

It's your money, you have no obligation to any of these guys. A smart, honorable and legit broker, boats or real estate, will have a representation agreement for you to sign right off the bat. This stops any of the BS the other guys tell you and obligates you to be out front as well.

[desodave]

Originally Posted by christofe

I have no contract with the first one. We just met once when he showed me the first boat. I guess it makes sense not to stay with him if he can only show me a limited number of boats. The whole process is a little obscure to me.

Then it was your mistake to say that you had a broker imo. We had one broker who showed us a couple of boats and had a decent idea of what we were looking for. We also already had a boat so there were potentially two sales for the broker. Even put ours up for sale through him, although at the end of the year. We didn't think we were getting any help on the looking end and no feedback on the selling end, so we decided to end the relationship ... but the only contract was on the selling end, nothing on the buying end.

So we just contacted the selling broker on our next viewings and several months later bought through one of those brokers ... and then sold the old boat through him because of his service on the buying end and the ability to minimize sales tax by classifying our old boat as a trade-in. If a selling broker is actually willing to do some work looking for you, I think you should respect that work and consider some obligation to him. But no contract is no contract.

As others have said, there are costs of a survey and a mechanical inspection for you to bear as well, and then to use those to bargain price adjustments. The survey on our old boat produced a couple of surprises for us and we agreed with the buyer to reduce the previously agreed price by $6,000 to compensate. Also note that surveys do not usually inspect any rigging above deck level. Best of luck with the search.

[Sailshabby]

The only contact you should be signing is to make an offer on a boat. You’re under no obligation to use just one broker, unless circumstances dictate you want a broker to find a boat for you, regardless of which brokerage is listing it. They’ll usually split the commission, if they agree to, or you’ll pay the listing agent his due, and your buyer’s agent a separate fee for finding the boat.

[jen1722terry]

When we bought our current boat nine years ago, we looked for over a year and met a lot of brokers and a few selling owners. When we finally settled on the make model we liked, we looked for the broker that sold a lot of them, in our case, Dave Perry of the former Cape Dory Yachts. Dave was extremely low pressure, knew of all boats for sale and most that would be for sale and told us what to look for.

Now Catalina, if I'm not mistaken, sells more yachts than anyone. They have a huge owners group that you may wish to join. Ask on their forums for recommendations for brokers who know those yachts and have pleased many owners and sellers. You'll find a few that have such solid reputations that they don't need to play silly broker games with you.

Good Luck

[Calif.Ted]

Works much like real estate in that each brokerage is owned by a broker, he gets half of anything sold by his brokerage thru the brokers or salesmen in his office. So if a listing agent, his broker, a selling agent and his broker involved everybody gets 1/4 of the commission. A listing can be either exclusive or open, in todays weird market there is a huge demand and very few available listings so exclusive contracts may predominant. Everyone I know in the biz of selling boats right now has pages of potential buyers and no boats.
I used a friend who owned a brokerage as a buyers broker for convenience once, he made arrangements for us to have the keys and access to several boats in San Diego and MDR. Then found a boat in San Francisco and travelled with me for survey and closing, got $600 for new batteries and cost me nothing.
Ordinarily I'd agree buyers brokers not necessarily as helpful if they aren't old sailing buddies who really don't need your money. Bottom line they are SALESMEN, and they hear so much dubious crap from buyers all day they can get tone deaf.
Where are you looking, a yachtworld search just turned up only 4 Cat 42's in California.