Insurance challenges - Canada

[EngNate]

My boat is 47 years old and insured with Beacon. When I took it over from my ex the rate went up because of new policy, higher valuation, and she had Power Squadron and I don't - I just have a 500T Engineer ticket... Anyhow it's still not bad at $1300 CAD for a $60K boat. I have some advance notice, as they told me Beacon will drop it when it turns 50. So, there's a couple more leads for me here. I am told that Hagerty is good and specializes in older boats.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by EngNate

I have some advance notice, as they told me Beacon will drop it when it turns 50.

Thanks for the warning ... I guess I've got a maximum of 5 more years on my policy then.

[Mike OReilly]

Interesting information folks. Keep it coming. I will compile all the brokers and underwriters, along with all the financial data, once the thread end.

[sv_pelagia]

Currently, we use Dolphin Insurance Services, with policy underwritten by Lloyd's. Full coverage (liability coverage cost not broken down).

When we went to Mexico in 2013, we were insured with HUB (cannot remember underwriters). So, we got HUB to get coverage for "offshore". Wow, over 3x the price. We stuck with them (because HUB had been VERY helpful when we had significant repair costs on a previous boat after hitting a rock far north).

Midway through our time in Mexico, HUB informed us the underwriter was dropping coverage. Fortunately, they found a new underwriter. But with requirement to get a new survey (well before we would be able to get back to Mexico during hurricane season); fortunately, HUB negotiated a several-month extension of that requirement.

So HUB served us well.

When we returned to British Columbia, we contacted HUB to redo the insurance (for local cruising). We were not impressed with the new local package (much pricier and more-limited than our local coverage 2 years before). So, we decided to get quotes etc from three different brokers.

The three came back with a range of prices (150% difference) and, especially a range of requirements. One required a new survey within 3 years then 7 years later, another every 5 years, and the 3rd every 10 years.

We ended choosing Dolphin in 2015. Been happy with them (even though price increase of about 100% from August 2015 to August 2021). 10-year survey requirement. Less cost than HUB.

Main point: It IS a good idea to survey the field (get quotes and details from different brokers).

[raahell]

Hey Mike, thanks for starting this thread. We bought a 36' steel sailboat last summer and rushed the insurance as we were in a time window to get her up the St Lawrence into the Great Lakes. We went with Cowan at $1600 premium for $80K/$2M but we felt that we were being taken advantage of. Now we're taking our time to survey our options and this thread has been very useful.

Has anyone had positive or negative experiences when it comes to insuring steel hulls? Also, what about owners that do their own work? I've heard that some insurers will drop an owner that admits to doing his/her own work, especially if it's the realm of a "repair". In my case I'm a marine engineer and just completed a full refit of the hull below the waterline. The only thing I didn't do was the actual blasting of the hull, but I did my work right, didn't skimp and used quality marine paints and hardware. I took loads of pics for documentation of the process. Appreciate any advice from those with experience in insuring their steel boat that has undergone extensive work-by-owner.

[MVDarlin]

I was informed Geico would no longer provide hull insurance on Mexico. The Mexican brokers advised hull insurance is not available for boats over 30 yrs old. Still looking for hull insurance.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Hi All
I appreciate the quandary here, but this comparison makes no sense. Liability-only insurance is all about the value of the other party's boat - it has nothing to do with the value of your boat. It is only about what damage your vessel can do as an inadvertent 'weapon' vs other boats or property. The liability risk calculation doesn't care a bit whether that 'weapon' is worth $1,600 or $1,600,000.

Oh I know how liability works (although the actual damage I could do to another boat/the docks is minimal compared to a 40' steel boat for instance), it was more to point out the percentage of cost even liability has on owning a tiny, cheap boat.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by alctel

Oh I know how liability works (although the actual damage I could do to another boat/the docks is minimal compared to a 40' steel boat for instance), it was more to point out the percentage of cost even liability has on owning a tiny, cheap boat.

All good. Liability insurance is more of a fixed, rather than a variable, cost of boat ownership. A classic barrier to entry for the sport/practice/lifestyle.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by alctel

Oh I know how liability works (although the actual damage I could do to another boat/the docks is minimal compared to a 40' steel boat for instance), it was more to point out the percentage of cost even liability has on owning a tiny, cheap boat.

All good. Liability insurance is more of a fixed, rather than a variable, cost of boat ownership. It's cost isn't (much) related to the value of the boat. But it hurts more for a low-value boat!
A classic barrier to entry for the sport/practice/lifestyle.

[Marathon1150]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Interesting information folks. Keep it coming. I will compile all the brokers and underwriters, along with all the financial data, once the thread end.

OK. More details.

We have two boats. Both are insured by Dolphin with whom we have insured boats for about 30 years. As noted in a previous message in this thread, in 2018 they could not insure our B 11.50 to cross from Mexico to French Polynesia because they could not find an underwriter to cover a "low value boat". So we switched to a broker in New Zealand - The Marina Shop. After submitting a sailing resume, they provided insurance for the trip that was double what we were paying for the boat to be in Mexico but we didn't really have much choice. But a key crew member had an accident on the dock and we postponed the crossing to 2019. By that time, the NZ broker could not find anybody willing to insure the boat. The provider of the previous year's insurance lost their credentials to cover Canadian boats in international waters. After a 3 week delay, coverage was found and it was slightly more expensive than the previous year.

The boat is now stuck in Tahiti and considered "full time laid up" in a marina. Dolphin was able to find insurance cover for us and the price dropped to about 60% of the previous year's cost. I'm not sure if this is because of a different company providing the cover, or because the boat is tied up and not going anywhere, or something else entirely. Hopefully we will find out next year when we hope to resume the voyage to New Zealand (assuming that the latter opens up). The policy is inclusive of liability, has separate deductibles for "named storms", but does not include "sunk" insurance which the marina initially asked for. It apparently covers the cost of floating and removing boats that sink in the marina. When we were last there our neighbours consisted of 100 foot+ Perini Navi's and the like which are probably quite costly to float when they sink.

Our second boat is located in Vancouver and is five years newer than the other boat (1990 vs 1985) and about 2m shorter. This year's premium including liability is $745 with Dolphin.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by MVDarlin

I was informed Geico would no longer provide hull insurance on Mexico. The Mexican brokers advised hull insurance is not available for boats over 30 yrs old. Still looking for hull insurance.

Geico isn't really relevant as they don't insure in Canada anyway.

[Mickeyrouse]

Just received notification of our Boat/Us insurance renewal. No word about rates changing- but then, no word about rates NOT changing either. We’re in the US, and our boat is 48 years new, and no mention of survey requirement.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Geico isn't really relevant as they don't insure in Canada anyway.

I don't know of any US broker that deals with Canada.
Actual underwriters can be from anywhere, I believe,but deal only thru Can. brokers in Canada?
Right/Wrong?? / Len

[ChirpyBird]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for sharing your experience.

We are in Ontario. 2001 boat and isured with Elite Insurance Company, which I believe is Aviva. The broker is Arthur J. Gallagher Canada Limited.

Standard liability insurance ($2m) and hull insurance ($90k) is about $850 plus tax.

[Mike OReilly]

I've tried to assemble all the info provided here and put it in a simple spreadsheet. Some brokers get multiple rows based on the different reports here.

I've not listed who said what, but you will likely recognize your own reports. If I've got anything wrong, please let me know.

My hope is that this can be useful for Canadians seeking insurance. I'll try and update the document if more info comes in.