Is the 10% rule fact or fiction?

[CassidyNZ]

Lots of variables but the one thing that I believe is that it depends on what kind of maintenance regime you want to follow. There is a difference between doing saturation maintenance with the goal of keeping the boat new and doing a lesser level of maintenance that keeps the boat fully functional and safe.

But one way or another, you’re going to pay it. If you do saturation maintenance and take your boat to market in 10 years, you’ll most likely get a better price for the boat.

I don’t do saturation maintenance. I keep my boat safe and functional but given that it is around three decades old I have no expectation of keeping the boat new. But I’m under no illusions about the value my boat will have lost by not doing saturation maintenance.

I just subscribe to the belief that I’ll rather take a hit at sale time than have on-going cash flow issues generated by boat ownership. The buyer will also be under no illusions that he’s getting what he pays for. A safe, functional boat at a great price.

But after all that, no I don’t annually spend 10% of purchase price on my boat. YMMV.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It is complete friction. Boats of similar size cost about the same regardless of cost. And high end boats cost pretty much the same as lower cost boats.

I also agree.


Living aboard full time is more about you ability to stay on top of things and fix things than the ability to pay for things to be fixed. A super yacht in charter will definitely cost between 10-15% but they are in business.

For normal people a million$ 40ft boat costs the same to moor, anti-foul, fuel etc as it does for a $50,000 40ft boat. Insurance on the other-hand will be directly proportional to the value of the boat. The 10% is pretty accurate when you look at replacing "equipment" that in "general" lasts 10 years; sails, batteries, battery chargers, inverters, fridges, cookers, upholstery, pumps etc.

Bigger items like engines and generators may last longer depending on usage and how much time, effort and money you chuck at them in later years, but 10 years is a fair average.

Now if you have a million$ boat you may well choose more exotic "expensive" sails or use the most expensive anti-fouling paint or have gold threads in the cashmere upholstery but the primary cost will be down to the labour, DIY or a professional in western Europe, will be the same for both.

Pick a boat that is comfortable and self sufficient at anchor, marinas are expensive. Having a cheap boat with no everyday useable shower will mean more money spent in marinas. GRP interiors might look spartan but fancy wood, especially in the tropics will be a costly maintenance nightmare. Teak decks look lovely, on other peoples boats. Cats are more expensive than monohulls as sails, running rigging and sail gear is more technical and requires renewing more often, but a battery charger for a million$ cat costs the same as one for a $50,000 monohull.

The devil is in the detail. Pick a boat with tinned wiring, replacing crusty black copper wiring is very expensive and time consuming. Unless you know about generators don't have one or you will end up as middleman between the mechanic and the electrician. Keep everything within your pay grade.

[mvweebles]

Difficulty is using 10%.....of what? Varies on boat, initial condition, use, etc.

But if your question is longer term planning for affordability purposes, it's probably easier to consider a 5 year horizon, and group by systems or other chunks above and beyond standard operating costs such as insurance and fuel.

- hull and fittings including ports, painting (bottom jobs) , canvas (dodger, enclosure, etc) etc

- sails and running/standing rigging

- dinghy, outboard, davits, etc

- propulsion. Engine, transmission, prop, shaft, cutless, fuel tanks, steering systems

- electronics and navigation including autopilot

- energy - generator, solar, batteries, inverter, etc

- travel. Trips home, marina fees, clearing-in immigration fees

- interior systems. Head, A/C, water heater, plumbing, pumps, lighting, etc

Over the course of 5 years, you will touch each of these systems, some significantly. Depending on how your boat is equipped, you can probably take a value of each system and take 10% per year over 5 years and be pretty close. If sails and rigging have a replacement value of $15k, you will probably spend close to half that either before you go or along the way across 5 years.

Good luck advancing your dream!

Peter

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

It is complete friction. Boats of similar size cost about the same regardless of cost. And high end boats cost pretty much the same as lower cost boats.

Sorry, Sailorboy, but "complete friction? Ain't that the penultimate freudian?

Bwah-ha-ha!
LittleWing77

[RickG]

Sitting on a paid mooring this morning waiting for a refrigeration tech to take a look at our 17 year old system that eats too many amps and ices up. Next upgrade is new canvas. Repairs in the queue include new oil transfer pump, repair freezer door, replace the water pressure pump under warranty, troubleshoot sonar... It really never ends. This year our number will be more like 20%.

Cheers, RickG

[Kenpimentel]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Difficulty is using 10%.....of what? Varies on boat, initial condition, use, etc.

But if your question is longer term planning for affordability purposes, it's probably easier to consider a 5 year horizon, and group by systems or other chunks above and beyond standard operating costs such as insurance and fuel.

- hull and fittings including ports, painting (bottom jobs) , canvas (dodger, enclosure, etc) etc

- sails and running/standing rigging

- dinghy, outboard, davits, etc

- propulsion. Engine, transmission, prop, shaft, cutless, fuel tanks, steering systems

- electronics and navigation including autopilot

- energy - generator, solar, batteries, inverter, etc

- travel. Trips home, marina fees, clearing-in immigration fees

- interior systems. Head, A/C, water heater, plumbing, pumps, lighting, etc

Over the course of 5 years, you will touch each of these systems, some significantly. Depending on how your boat is equipped, you can probably take a value of each system and take 10% per year over 5 years and be pretty close. If sails and rigging have a replacement value of $15k, you will probably spend close to half that either before you go or along the way across 5 years.

Good luck advancing your dream!

Peter

After living on a $300K cat for 3 years, I think this would have been the best approach. You also have to decide if you're following all manufacturers guidance on frequency, or that you live in a more realistic world - and less frequent. An SD-50 sail drive on our Leopard wanted us to haul-out and replace our seals every six months. That is not practical in the slightest. I'd say we were more anal about maintenance than others I met, but we both had breakages about the same amount. I generally carried more spares. The value of the right spare cannot be underestimated as it allows you to also diagnose the problem (potentially saving a tone of time/cost). Did I carry spares that I never needed? Yes, but that gave me peace of mind.

[wing15601]

Plan for the worst but hope for the best. If you plan to spend that 10% but only spend 9% you’ll be happy. Hence the 10% rule which is designed to keep sailors happy.

[theBigKahuna]

Originally Posted by Jammer

10% of what?


I paid $5000 for my boat and I can assure you that I spend more than $500 a year on maintenance despite doing nearly all my own work.


There are $300,000 boats that are five years old. Typical maintenance costs for them, are lower than a $30,000 a year.


Most of the maintenance expense has little to do with the make or model of the boat because all (well, most) boats have engines, sails, rigs, bottom paint, batteries, electronics, portlights, refrigeration, etc.


Unusual maintenance expenses that can drive up the averages would include things like replacing tanks that cannot be accessed without removing the interior, replacing chainplates that cannot be accessed without cutting into the hull, failure of the deck-to-hull joint, blistering or delamination of the hull, other structural failures, or correction of design mistakes. Some makes, models, and years of boats are more prone to these problems.

Jammer makes a very good point... it really depends a lot on what you paid for the boat. A new sail kit for a $2k boat with be a much larger percentage of orig. cost than say a 2 yr old cat.

For perspective, we bought a 2015 Leopard cat 2 seasons ago, which tend to run on the 'high' end a bit. Our yearly maint costs are nowhere near 10%. A number of boaters have published their yearly costs. You should dig them up for more accurate comparables, IMHO.

[Sofa King Fishy]

I found personal success with determining my ‘all in’ budget, purchasing a vessel for up to 70-80% of that budget, apply a big chunk up front replacing aged systems (sails, canvas, running rigging, cushions, lighting, aging pumps, sanitation hoses, heads, etc., then have at least 10% in reserve for things that break underway, or surprises. 2 years in so far. I’d even go for 15-20...example, pulled to paint my bottom & needed a soda blasting & expoy coat. ..added $4000 to a $2000 job. 20 year old mono hull, 42’, purchased for $120k.

[Danm1]

I think percentage is the wrong way to look at it. Compare it to real estate with capital and operating budgets. Items such as sails and roofs both have useful lives of x years, depending on regular maintenance, weather conditions, etc. You have to budget each system for maintenance and replacement. Docking or mooring fees are operating costs. New anchor chain is a capital cost, albeit for something with a long useful life. My experience is that you can figure a capital budget for a boat or a house and you will wind up paying it one way or the other, i.e. you can use a sail or roof past its useful life by accepting poor performance, but it will cost you on resale.
Long story short, add up your systems and make a budget based on norms for useful life.

[sailingharry]

That rule is pure, unadulterated internet poppycock. Utter rubbish, and it is so frustrating to see it perpetuated over and over again.


How does the maintenance on a 2019 Jaguar compare to that on a 1999 Jaguar? The 1999 is much cheaper, so it should have lower maintenance, right?

How does the maintenance on a 2015 Ford driven 3,000 miles a year compare to the same car driven 45,000 miles a year? They cost the same, so the maintenance should be the same, right?


How does the maintenance on two identical, good running cars compare between a conservative guy, like me, that just drives it, and a kid who puts new low profile rims (and the super expensive tires they require), a new "tuned" exhaust, nitrous injection, a super high powered radio, and a custom paint job? The car cost the same, maintenance should be the same, right?


And in boats, older boats costs less, some boats are sailed much more frequently, and some owners need all the latest bells and whistles while others will duct tape up that rip on that 30 year old sail.


Complete rubbish!

[lo2jones]

Hey Folks, the 10% does not apply to 30 year old boats. It’s a general guide that helps buyers of relatively new boats see what they’ll spend on a slip, a diver, and general maintenance...It’s not meant for boats that need a total or partial refit, new sails/rigging, etc.

[Pegu Club]

It depends on how many and how complex your systems are, for instance, if you don’t have a hot water heater you never have to replace it when it leaks, same with pressure water systems, if you don’t have pressure water you never have related maintenance, etc etc, the more cool stuff you have the more maintenance, preventative or otherwise is required, if your boat is sixty feet long, it requires far more bottom paint than say a thirty foot long boat, longer halyards and sheets, bigger sails, all cost more money, and that doesn’t take into account purchase price, it also depends on how and how much you use your boat. So it all “ depends”

Fair winds,

[sv Stella Maris]

10% is accurate. Having an accounting background and living aboard these last couple years; people forget that part of that 10% is depreciation. A newer boat has less annual maintenance, but higher depreciation, an older boat visa versa.

Either way, the true cost of ownership is around 10%...

Good luck

[dannc]

Originally Posted by wanderlust87

Hello all!

My husband and I are working on an 8-year plan to purchase and long-term liveaboard a bluewater sailboat ... and the current debate is the 10% maintenance cost rule. I've heard from multiple sources that if you are doing the majority of maintenance yourself you should expect to spend 10% of the total cost of your boat annually on repairs/upkeep.
...

I have heard the 10% maintenance rule since the 1980's, it did not make sense to me then, nor does it make sense to me today.

Notice the responses you are getting are not always answering your question. They mention maintenance, upgrades, cost of docking/mooring, depreciation, operating expenses, insurance, etc. Those are all cost of ownership but not maintenance expenses. Many of those expenses are highly variable.

If you are buying a used boat you will have upgrad expenses to get the boat from a condition that ranges from usable to as new. Even a new boat will have costs for buying stuff that one will need but these are not maintenance costs.

After the boat is at some condition that will be maintained, then maintenance costs start. But what are they? That is your question I will get back to in a second.

Then there are operating/owning costs which to me is dockage/moorage, insurance, fuel, power, etc.

Lets throw in a hypothetical. There is a boat we want that we can buy new for $1,000,000 or used for $500,000.

Upgrading the used boat is what ever it costs, depends on the condition of the boat, and is not maintenance.

Am I REALLY going to spend $100,000 a year maintaining a brand new boat? I think if I had to spend $100,000 in the first five years, I would be surprised and I suspect it would be as a result of an accident where insurance would be in play. Am I REALLY going to $50,000 a year on the old boat for maintenance? How? $50K you would be buying a new engine, generator, sails, rigging, etc., every year, with money left over.

I just don't see the 10% "rule" working for maintenance with any degree of accuracy across a range of boat types, displacement, usage, etc.

The best maintenance guesstimator I have seen is a spreadsheet on the Morgan's Cloud website. You have to pay to be a member to see the article and get to the spreadsheet but the website is well worth the minimal cost. The article is here, https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/07...ging-sailboat/

The spreadsheet looks at displacement, miles sailed, complexity of the boat, who does the maintenance, how well is the boat kept, etc, to generate a yearly maintenance costs. The spreadsheet assumes a new boat or a boat in as new condition that is kept for 10 years. Updating the boat to that condition is not part of the calculation.

Later,
Dan