Is the 10% rule fact or fiction?

[sv Stella Maris]

Sailbrandison- That was a lot of words to end up at about 10% ;-)

I’m on a 450F...the numbers you provided vary grossly from mine, and my equipment aboard is much different from the sound of it;, yet I still have about 10% when I run the numbers.

Our boat is still depreciating at a decent rate, not radical, but very present, yours’ less so, but still losing money every day.

And to the others that say it’s ‘what you spend’...this is irrelevant of what SHOULD be spent to keep it 100% ship shape.The price will catch up to you on the back end; of course many brokers and owners will misrepresent the boat in an attempt to hide the wear...but it’s there.

Of course places like Florida, Annapolis, Grenada, and on and on will screw you in pricing or quality, but it rounds out for the cruiser.

[AKA-None]

Hmmm
There is cost of living all in such as sailorboys numbers
There is cost of ownership which could include marina fees or dockage
Then there is maintenance which includes cost to replace or repair either as it breaks or before it breaks.

Those who say my maintenance cost is zero because I replaced everything before I sailed off are missing the point that what they spent is cost of maintenance

Your budget is what you set aside to cover those sails even though you haven’t spent it yet

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by gordonhinds

I'd like to hear from those doing it. I suspect people often under estimate all the costs.

I have posted it here every month for the last 50 months. I bet most cruisers don't even know the real number for $$$ spent on the boat. All they know are the big ticket items.

[dmkkeng]

The short answer is that using 10% of the purchase cost of a boat for maintenance is more likely to be fiction. Your maintenance budget is more accurately based on the condition of the boat, how well it has been maintained, how old it is and how complex the systems are on the boat.

I would likely budget between $3k and $5k per year for maintenance, you may not spend that much each year, however every 3-5 years you will likely have a repair that exceeds your yearly budget. The above amounts would be considered the average amount spent per year. For the first year or so I would start with the higher amount, once you get to know the boat you may want to lower or increase the budget based on your experience. Other factors include the age of the boat and how well it has been maintained. For example, if you purchase and older boat with an engine that is potentially at the end of its life cycle you may need to budget for an engine re-build/ replacement at some point which could easily cost $15K to $30K. Get the boat inspected prior to purchase, this will help ascertain the potential repair costs that will be over and above your typical maintenance costs/ corresponding budget.

When we purchased our 42’ sailboat (6 years old) our budget consisted of the following:

1. Purchase Cost: Cost of boat + applicable taxes + transfer and registration fees, cost of haul out/ inspection. Over and above the purchase cost and applicable taxes you should budget an additional $2-3k for this item.
2. Operating Cost: Moorage (can vary significantly with location and size of boat) + Insurance + yearly registration cost + licensing costs, my budget has varied between $7K and $12k per year for this item. Keep in mind that moorage costs are based on the size of slip, moorage costs are based on slip size, not boat size, the smallest slip my boat fits into is 46’, typically I am paying for a 50’ slip.
3. Upgrade Cost: What does the boat need to bring it up to your standards or needs, this cost can vary significantly, you need to do your research to determine how much you are going to budget for this category. For the first three years of boat ownership my costs were around $10K per year. I did however have a couple of bigger projects like installing a solar system, upgrading battery capacity, installing davits, asymmetrical spinnaker, inverter, AIS, … Even if you do not have any bigger projects, do not underestimate this category, it is amazing how purchasing a lot of lower cost/ smaller items accumulates into a significant amount at the end of the year. My upgrade budget for the past 5 years has averaged less than $3K. There may be some overlap between upgrade and maintenance budgets, depending on how you categorize your costs, typically I consider maintenance items to be the things that you must do like repairs or preventative maintenance. Upgrades are everything else.
4. My maintenance budget varies between $3K and $5k per year, depending on weather or not a haul out is required that particular year, the least I have spent is $1k, the most I have spend is $10K per year.

Hopefully this information helps – owning a boat is not an inexpensive proposition! You could easily spend $15K per year for anything in the 35’ range. I am currently averaging $17.5K over 7 years of ownership. These are in cdn $’s.

[BillKny]

If you take about 5 seconds to actually think critically you would realize that "10% of purchase price" is nonsensical.

Imagine a boat that is 10 years old, and a new boat of the same model that is brand new (YES, there are boats that have had a ten year production run...) Does the 10 year old boat that cost you a LOT less than the new one from the factory cost less a LOT less to maintain? Of course not.

A FAR better "Rule" is 5% of the boat's price AS IF IT WERE NEW. As the service manager for a charter fleet for many years, and a boat owner for all of my adult life, lots of actual data have gone into this "Rule". For more details see: Cost of a boat Like any "Rule" it is a highly squishable number, but it will be within spitting distance of reality if you aspire to actually keeping a boat in Bristol condition.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Sailbrandison

I can tell you that 10% is a sales pitch to get people to avoid using spreadsheets. That's boat BS.
..................... I've had lots of first year and second year BS but I expected it by going into the ownership with my eyes open and expectations in line. Boat brokers set lower expectations so they can sell you too much boat and inflate their already high commission.

Wow! and I mean Wow!

If that was our experience (in nine years of owning a 50' mono), then we would have given up boating a long time ago.
Gee! (and yes we have a couple of Jabsco heads with the original joker valves, and our bilge pumps are original, as is our sanitation hose, and our running and standing rigging etc, etc, and our boat is as close to 'as new' as it gets - actually in many ways better than ....).

Standing rigging will need to be replaced in the forseeable to keep the insurers happy, but it is as solid as - same rigging as used on a 60.

As for lifting and insurance costs - more Wow!

Anyway, I'm just glad that I never read this before we bought our boat, or we may never have proceeded.

[BBill]

The 10% rule is fiction for most and reality for only a few. Following that rule has the same odds as rolling the dice at a casino. Do you feel lucky?

[Hesti]

When you do the "true" figures, you have to include every hour of own work, multiplied with - depends on your ability, I would take around 1/3 of the hourly rate in a boatyard in western industrialized countries. Perhaps a bit more on some jobs where I know my way around.


So, an owner who puts a few hundred hours of work into his boat - that is a few thousand $$$$s towards the budget.


Also, yes, some cost depends also on use. If you never use the boats and have the sails at home, there is not going to be a lot of wear on them ...


And yes, a well built boat can have fewer problems than a less well built one. I still scratch my head at some of the issues on our previous boat - AlCu reinforcements in the deck which corroded at a whiff of water, not to say salt water. When a boat like that gets older, one of these reinforcement needs doing every 2 or 3 years ...


So, the 10 % of a price of a new similar sized boat is just a starting point. It works for me for budgeting. The current boat is still in the "bring up to scratch from maintenance backlog phase". Especially in the first winter, it has siphoned multitudes of the 10 % from the purse plus many many hours. And it's not perfect yet.


If you use a boat a lot - how long do you keep your upholstery before it is tacky? Say 10 years? Sprayhood and other fabric outside - say 10 ... 15 years? Standing rigging including rollers - say 20 years? Running rigging - continous upgrade as needed, say average 15 years? Engine - say 30 years if well maintained? Nav electronics - say 20 years? Shaft seal - at least Volvo recommends replacement every 5 years IIRC. Sails - 10 to 15 years? Pyrotechnical signals - 3 years? Maintenance of the wood below? And so on ... There is a lot of things that will need replacement or serious intervention over 20 years or more years. And you pay more for replacement parts than a manufacturer does originally with his volume discounts. And then, you have to do the work or have it done. Yeah, I know, there are a lot of examples where it is less, where stuff lasted longer, but there are also a lot of examples where stuff suddenly broke, oh so unexpectedly, it looked still as good as new, we never would have thought, there was just a small gap last time we looked and we put some bathroom silicone in there and it was as good as new ...

[MJH]

Originally Posted by wanderlust87

Hello all!

My husband and I are working on an 8-year plan to purchase and long-term liveaboard a bluewater sailboat while traveling the world. We are trying to plan a realistic budget/financial plan for our boat/life (are still debating monohull vs cat), and the current debate is the 10% maintenance cost rule. I've heard from multiple sources that if you are doing the majority of maintenance yourself you should expect to spend 10% of the total cost of your boat annually on repairs/upkeep.

Obviously some years will (hopefully) be much less than this and some years will be more, but generally- have liveaboard cruisers found this general rule to be true?

Next, how does this rule hold up when comparing similar boats of similar sizes? For example, a 1980s Hallberg-Rassy 45 vs an early-00s boat of the same make (it would make sense that the 80s boat would be more expensive to maintain than a newer model, but the purchase price of the boat would be less).

Any advice much appreciated!

I'm supplementing my earlier post (#24) to this topic now that I have my figures.

I am a bit anal with regard to keeping records...I log everything I spend from a single washer to new sails...I don't think many, if any, do this because it would bore or scare most owners.

To get a somewhat accurate answer to your question you need to define what maintenance costs are. For me a Maintenance cost is essentially maintaining/repairing/replacing what you already have with a couple of exceptions like sails and engine (similar to replacing the roof of your house). Beyond Maintenance there are Upgrade expenses like new sails or engine or adding something the boat did not have previously.

Comparing my last two boats (28' sloop vs. 42' cutter) the 28' was owned for 11 years and I spent 52% of my total cost on Maintenance and another 8.4% on Upgrades. The boat came with a very low hour new engine and the original sails...I did not replace either.

On my 42' which I have owned for 13.5 years I have spent 31.2% of my total cost on Maintenance and 45.8% on upgrades. The boat came with sails in very poor condition which I have replaced with very good cruising sails and new rigging including two new furlers. The engine was brand new with only 2.0 hours.

In both cases I did almost all the routine Maintenance myself and most installations of new equipment (Upgrades) but not the furlers or rigging.

I have saved a lot on one expense, Mooring. As I have moored my boats to a buoy rather than keeping it at a marina my Mooring expenses have only been 10.9% for the 28' and .9% for the 42'. Without buoy mooring I would not have been able to enjoy the boats I have if at all.

I encourage you to track all your expenses.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH