Is this a thing?!

[bellasailor]

Apologies in advance for vagueness, this is all hypothetical currently!
We’re an early 30s couple in the UK, financially solvent, comfortable, eating into our mortgage and building savings

In approx 3-4yrs we’d like to take a career break, and both work for employers that facilitate this up to 12m with our jobs kept open. We sail via charter a lot, with reasonable and growing experience.

We’d love to do the live aboard thing and don’t feel that 12m in Europe works due to climate and have no delusions about our abilities that leave us any urge to do an Atlantic passage.

So the loose idea is to buy a boat somewhere in the Caribbean; live/sail for a year and sell it. We’d not need financing and our cost would be the insurance, maintenance, any taxes, broker fees and depreciation (hoping depreciation would be minimal over 12m with a wise pick).

What strikes me though is there are always blog posts by those who own a boat and finances run dry or a relative gets sick or they’re trying to sell the boat and it sits on a mooring or on the hard for months on end.

subject to proper agreements, insurance, a fee etc, do people ever loan/borrow a boat for circa 12m? It seems like it could be a way for someone to continue t own a boat they’d otherwise let go, and for people like us to have access to a boat for the medium term but I can’t find anything to this effect; are there private individuals making agreements like this or does it just not happen?!

[john61ct]

Super rare, would really need to either be between trusted friends, or cost the world.

Remember older used boats are readily available to purchase for a very small fraction of the overall cost of ownership.

Say your total ownership / running costs are $200,000 over five years. That would likely be similar whether the purchase price was $5000 or $50,000.

In fact the cheaper boat needing fixing up, would likely both cost more in the end, and reduce the time available for sailing, by **a lot**.

At the end of those five years, conscientious owners may well have a boat worth $100,000 (ideally).

But in the hands of newbie or careless users, 80% of that value could be wiped out in just a few months.

See why what your proposing is so risky?

Once you're an owner of a bristol-condition beauty, see how you'd answer. . .

[Calif.Ted]

Originally Posted by bellasailor

subject to proper agreements, insurance, a fee etc, do people ever loan/borrow a boat for circa 12m? It seems like it could be a way for someone to continue t own a boat they’d otherwise let go, and for people like us to have access to a boat for the medium term but I can’t find anything to this effect; are there private individuals making agreements like this or does it just not happen?!

I don't think it's a thing, be nice for you but doesn't help the owner any, they don't want to retain ownership.

[JPA Cate]

Sorry, bella sailor, but I'm going to rain on your parade.

People who have desirable sailboats like them, they do not like to hand them over to strangers, because strangers may disregard the value and nature of their property. When that happens, basically the boat gets trashed, and the owner cops woes.

Therefore, no, people will not generally be interested in what you suggest. It is barely possible you might find something like that, but don't hold your breath.

As far as I know, over 35+ years of cruising, I have not ever heard of what you suggest happening. It is not impossible, but the probability is highly unlikely.

Ann

[bellasailor]

Thanks for the replies - it was merely a ponderance; not even an attempt to save money as we'll be fine to purchase a boat outright and not sure yearly “lease” cost would be cheaper just perhaps less admin.

It just struck me that I know many people who perhaps inherit a family home or own a horse for example, and whilst unable to make use of that asset lease it out but retain ownership so I’d been pondering if the same ever happened with boats...certainly many young professionals I know own apartments and rent them out for a year if they go off travelling so this was almost the flip side! Although I appreciate no one will sail off or run aground in your apartment!!

[valhalla360]

For the most part, people in desperation are unlikely to be keeping the boat up, so it's likely to be a mess.

Also they likely have other financial issues...so what happens when they file bankruptcy and you get a notice saying the boat is being repo'd.

Then you have the issue of how much is normal wear & tear before it becomes...you damaged the boat.

Just a messy situation. It's like having a house and moving to another city, it's a bad idea to become an accidental landlord...it's also a bad idea to become an accidental charter operator.

About the only way I could see this work is if it's a good friend that you trust...of course, when the poo hits the fan, they may no longer be your friend.

[Marathon1150]

We own a house that is rented out and our boat was in a charter fleet for a year. Fixing houses damaged by renters is usually easy and cheap because the damage is typically trivial and house "parts" are cheap. Fixing damaged boats is expensive and difficult, at least partially because boat parts are expensive.

We chartered the boat because we had yet to sell our previous boat and had nowhere to park the new one. I will certainly never charter out any boat that I own again. On the other hand, a rented out house is generally a positive income stream and repair costs are tax deductible.

So this IMHO is why people rent out their apartment/house but are generally very unlikely to "share" their boat, other than as someone noted above, with a trusted friend.

[LittleWing77]

Hi Bella,

There's a recent thread which will illustrate why sailors will not/ought not loan their boats - **Laura Dekker's Guppy destroyed on reef** (just search this Forum to find the thread. We in the sailing community have all lamented and been outraged about this, in equal parts.

And this was a young woman at the top of her game loaning her irreplaceable and iconic boat to a purportedly trusted non-profit organization, for altruistic reasons.

Heartbreaking.

[Augi]

Originally Posted by bellasailor

Apologies in advance for vagueness, this is all hypothetical currently!
We’re an early 30s couple in the UK, financially solvent, comfortable, eating into our mortgage and building savings

In approx 3-4yrs we’d like to take a career break, and both work for employers that facilitate this up to 12m with our jobs kept open. We sail via charter a lot, with reasonable and growing experience.

We’d love to do the live aboard thing and don’t feel that 12m in Europe works due to climate and have no delusions about our abilities that leave us any urge to do an Atlantic passage.

So the loose idea is to buy a boat somewhere in the Caribbean; live/sail for a year and sell it. We’d not need financing and our cost would be the insurance, maintenance, any taxes, broker fees and depreciation (hoping depreciation would be minimal over 12m with a wise pick).

What strikes me though is there are always blog posts by those who own a boat and finances run dry or a relative gets sick or they’re trying to sell the boat and it sits on a mooring or on the hard for months on end.

subject to proper agreements, insurance, a fee etc, do people ever loan/borrow a boat for circa 12m? It seems like it could be a way for someone to continue t own a boat they’d otherwise let go, and for people like us to have access to a boat for the medium term but I can’t find anything to this effect; are there private individuals making agreements like this or does it just not happen?!

A good option for resale is get on the waiting list(1.5 to 2 years), for a new Pogo 12.5, or JPK 38 or Outremer 50' plus in length. In 12 months a Pogo 12.5 or JPK 38 FC or Outremer probably will not depreciate at all because some will pay the new price not to have to wait.

Not guite as good would be a new Leopard owners version. Next after the Leopard would be a new Lagoon Owners Version. Next would be older boat with respected name for being well built that has already seen the bulk of it's depreciation and ideally bought from some one else who prepared her to live-a-board and then their plans changed.

To increase what you get when you resell the boat plan to end up within reason of your overall plan that tends to be a good place to sell the model of boat you bought. A good broker will know where that place is.

You would probably come out OK if you buy a 5 year owners version Leopard 40 coming out of the Moorings charter program. Although Moorings charter boats are heavily used Mooring tends to maintain their boats in charter reasonably well. You will pay a lot, but they will fix whatever the surveyor says needs to be fixed, it is a defined animal that the market place understands so there is less risk. There is good demand for 40' owners version cats from couples that want to become long term live-a-boards. You can predict with higher certainty what the adventure is going cost you, similar to renting.

A non performance cat would be especially relatively nice in the leeward islands since you can sail up and down, north and south and pretty much have the wind on your beam most of the time and avoid a non performance cat's weakness when going to weather. Same thing is true of a Pogo.

If it was me with your parameters I would go with a new Leopard 40 owners version(for the comfort and re-sale), or even better a 50'+ Outremer if I had the money. I would stay pretty much in the Leeward Islands to have the trade winds. If I wanted to explore further afield, then I would swap usage with owners of similar a vessel based elsewhere. Or for example fly to Latin America or North America to explore on land for a break from the pirate life.

If you received a new Outremer or Pogo 12.5 or JPK 38 FC in France you could probably find experienced crew that would pay you to sail her(with you on board or not), in the ARC to get her to the Leeward Islands.

At least at the moment a 12 month old Outremer or Pogo or JPK will sell at or close to their new price. 2-4 years from now it is less predictable but 1-2 years out when you would be ordering you can look at the market and see what is holding it's value best after 12 months that fits your intended use.

Have fun choosing your vessel and on your 12 month adventure. Sounds ideal!!

[Mikado]

Originally Posted by bellasailor

Apologies in advance for vagueness, this is all hypothetical currently!
We’re an early 30s couple in the UK, financially solvent, comfortable, eating into our mortgage and building savings

In approx 3-4yrs we’d like to take a career break, and both work for employers that facilitate this up to 12m with our jobs kept open. We sail via charter a lot, with reasonable and growing experience.

We’d love to do the live aboard thing and don’t feel that 12m in Europe works due to climate and have no delusions about our abilities that leave us any urge to do an Atlantic passage.

So the loose idea is to buy a boat somewhere in the Caribbean; live/sail for a year and sell it. We’d not need financing and our cost would be the insurance, maintenance, any taxes, broker fees and depreciation (hoping depreciation would be minimal over 12m with a wise pick).

What strikes me though is there are always blog posts by those who own a boat and finances run dry or a relative gets sick or they’re trying to sell the boat and it sits on a mooring or on the hard for months on end.

subject to proper agreements, insurance, a fee etc, do people ever loan/borrow a boat for circa 12m? It seems like it could be a way for someone to continue t own a boat they’d otherwise let go, and for people like us to have access to a boat for the medium term but I can’t find anything to this effect; are there private individuals making agreements like this or does it just not happen?!

I don't think it sounds like a crazy idea. There could be just the right person/boat out there so why not go ahead and ask? I would post a request on the various forums in the boat wanted section and see what kind of response you get. The worst thing that could happen is that you are told no.

Good luck!

Jeff

[Pete17C]

Don't people buy boats and then charter them out?

Wouldn't this just be an extended charter?

[Augi]

Originally Posted by Augi

A good option for resale is get on the waiting list(1.5 to 2 years), for a new Pogo 12.5, or JPK 38 or Outremer 50' plus in length. In 12 months a Pogo 12.5 or JPK 38 FC or Outremer probably will not depreciate at all because some will pay the new price not to have to wait.

Not guite as good would be a new Leopard owners version. Next after the Leopard would be a new Lagoon Owners Version. Next would be older boat with respected name for being well built that has already seen the bulk of it's depreciation and ideally bought from some one else who prepared her to live-a-board and then their plans changed.

To increase what you get when you resell the boat plan to end up within reason of your overall plan that tends to be a good place to sell the model of boat you bought. A good broker will know where that place is.

You would probably come out OK if you buy a 5 year owners version Leopard 40 coming out of the Moorings charter program. Although Moorings charter boats are heavily used Mooring tends to maintain their boats in charter reasonably well. You will pay a lot, but they will fix whatever the surveyor says needs to be fixed, it is a defined animal that the market place understands so there is less risk. There is good demand for 40' owners version cats from couples that want to become long term live-a-boards. You can predict with higher certainty what the adventure is going cost you, similar to renting.

A non performance cat would be especially relatively nice in the leeward islands since you can sail up and down, north and south and pretty much have the wind on your beam most of the time and avoid a non performance cat's weakness when going to weather. Same thing is true of a Pogo.

If it was me with your parameters I would go with a new Leopard 40 owners version(for the comfort and re-sale), or even better a 50'+ Outremer if I had the money. I would stay pretty much in the Leeward Islands to have the trade winds. If I wanted to explore further afield, then I would swap usage with owners of similar a vessel based elsewhere. Or for example fly to Latin America or North America to explore on land for a break from the pirate life.

If you received a new Outremer or Pogo 12.5 or JPK 38 FC in France you could probably find experienced crew that would pay you to sail her(with you on board or not), in the ARC to get her to the Leeward Islands.

At least at the moment a 12 month old Outremer or Pogo or JPK will sell at or close to their new price. 2-4 years from now it is less predictable but 1-2 years out when you would be ordering you can look at the market and see what is holding it's value best after 12 months that fits your intended use.

Have fun choosing your vessel and on your 12 month adventure. Sounds ideal!!

Since we are already down the rabbit hole, yet another option would be to rent a "less is more" type place on land, and own a smaller boat(that will not depreciate much because of the lower starting price), anchored or moored out in front of of your "less is more" type place, that is good for 1 week to 2 week trips but not very adequate for live-a-board. As you probably are aware the cost of maintenance, complexity and cost of depreciation usually go up exponentially with each foot of LOA. Besides the Caribbean locations for that concept I would favor would be locations in Croatia, Greece and everywhere in between. There are many other great places to do as described above. Just depends on your budget your taste, and the kind of sailing you want to do.

Yet another option would be to do as described above but have the "less is more" type place at 6000 ft - 7000 ft elevation somewhere in the lower latitudes, that would have spring like weather year around, that is within 2 hours of your boat. In the DR, Mexico and maybe the Philippines the above is possible(maybe else where). Extremely nice "less is more type places" in any of the three above locations would be dirt cheap.

If you have a very comfortable place on land to go back to you can save a lot on what is needed to spend on the boat(upfront, maintenance, and storage), and potentially incur in terms of depreciation.

You could have a lot of fun in the next 3-4 years processing, exploring, and visiting all the possibilities while on vacation.

[Augi]

Yet another idea is you can buy a boat through Moorings or Dream Yachts, get 9% income on what you pay for the boat, get to use the same type of boat or similar boat(Dream Yachts), at locations all over the World until your sabbatical. Moorings and Dream yachts allows you to pull your boat out of charter at anytime with notice.

The advantage of going the above route is, for example, you could have the boat in charter for only 6 months or a year to minimize wear and Moorings and Dream Yachts would in effect shake down your boat per the terms of the warranty with the builder. Plus you could use the same or similar type boat for 6-12 weeks a year until you pulled the boat out of charter and went on Sabbatical.

[Cadence]

I think you will have to bite the bullet and buy. However I wish you luck and from your post You may find someone since it was sensibly written.

[dakno]

You are talking about renting, chartering a boat for a year. The problem is the maintaince, upkeep. A regular charter vessel is maintained weekly, monthly by the charter company. With your proposed 1 year charter who is going to do maintaince and verify the boats condition, location ? Things go bad, wrong on a regular basis. I have doubts about the acceptability of this for a insurance co. Another thought is you get your boat and after your year sabbatical turn the boat over to a charter co while also listing for sale by their agents.