Marine insurance, going naked.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Most accidents are avoidable - ...

Most accidents are avoidable - so take more darned care and save yourself a lot of grief!

No one has ever said, at any point, that the insured should not make a claim -that's the whole point of insurance! I merely said that claims by the careless are paid for out of the premiums contributed by the careful, which is why I don't insure unless forced to.

Anecdotal evidence the uninsured are more careful: sixty years of combined driving on NZ roads (where insurance is optional) without an accident, over fifty years of boating without an accident: how many thousands of dollars would I have contributed to the pool of careless drivers, careless boaters, if I'd been insured those past 110 combined years? Why would I give away all that cash, which I can better spend on safety features that will truly enhance everyone's safety, including mine?

[lateral]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Most accidents are avoidable - so take more darned care and save yourself a lot of grief!

No one has ever said, at any point, that the insured should not make a claim -that's the whole point of insurance! I merely said that claims by the careless are paid for out of the premiums contributed by the careful, which is why I don't insure unless forced to.

Anecdotal evidence the uninsured are more careful: sixty years of combined driving on NZ roads (where insurance is optional) without an accident, over fifty years of boating without an accident: how many thousands of dollars would I have contributed to the pool of careless drivers, careless boaters, if I'd been insured those past 110 combined years? Why would I give away all that cash, which I can better spend on safety features that will truly enhance everyone's safety, including mine?

So what you are inferring is that your seamanship, boating skills & care are so superior that it is unnecessary to have liability insurance & don't need a cash/asset base to cover any contingency either?
If you momentarily descend from this height of immortality, heaven forbid, and make a mistake, do you have the wherewithal to put it right?
Or would you just equivocate with legal or other means?
I suppose we will never know with your outstanding luck.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

And as Wotname points out, by insuring you are passing your responsibilities onto someone else.

No you're not.
You still need to exercise due diligence when insured. What you do when getting insurance is accepting the fact that bad luck can strike you too. You just don't want it to potentially end your life.
In my 20ies I knew someone who's life was basically already over before he turned 30. It is because I do not want to run the risk of that happening to me I have liability insurance.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Most accidents are avoidable - so take more darned care and save yourself a lot of grief!

Do you consider yourself immune to bad luck?

[Zven]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Most accidents are avoidable - so take more darned care ...

All accidents are avoidable. The hard part is knowing in advance, and every time, exactly how to avoid them :-)

[NevisDog]

I'm not immune to accidents but I see others taking extreme risks that I would never take. I'm just not willing to contribute towards the eventual cost of their risky (or stupid) behaviour. Analyse each accident and you'll most often find it was easily avoidable, but some stupid, reckless person took the risk anyway and it didn't work out. Why would I want to contribute towards that type of behaviour - he gets the payout, I get nothing?

Boat sank on her mooring just a week ago: diesel spill, a tugboat and 18 hours barge time with crane operator plus two divers and lots of airbags to raise her, then the haul-out and of course the refit expense will be colossal. If his insurance company knew what I know about the actions of this guy they wouldn't pay out, but they don't know so they'll shell out mega-bucks. Why would anyone want to help pay for such inept stupidity?

It's the same on the roads - free windscreen cover, so everyone finds a small crack in their windscreen, so they whack it with a hammer and claim insurance, and that makes all the other suckers with insurance pay for his new windscreen. By insuring, you simply encourage this irresponsible, illegal behaviour.

[rwidman]

Rationalizing not having liability insurance is why it is compulsory (for autos and trucks) in so many places.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I'm not immune to accidents but I see others taking extreme risks that I would never take. I'm just not willing to contribute towards the eventual cost of their risky (or stupid) behaviour. Analyse each accident and you'll most often find it was easily avoidable, but some stupid, reckless person took the risk anyway and it didn't work out. Why would I want to contribute towards that type of behaviour - he gets the payout, I get nothing?

Boat sank on her mooring just a week ago: diesel spill, a tugboat and 18 hours barge time with crane operator plus two divers and lots of airbags to raise her, then the haul-out and of course the refit expense will be colossal. If his insurance company knew what I know about the actions of this guy they wouldn't pay out, but they don't know so they'll shell out mega-bucks. Why would anyone want to help pay for such inept stupidity?

It's the same on the roads - free windscreen cover, so everyone finds a small crack in their windscreen, so they whack it with a hammer and claim insurance, and that makes all the other suckers with insurance pay for his new windscreen. By insuring, you simply encourage this irresponsible, illegal behaviour.

Wow, you should be an insurance investigator and make big bucks saving them bigger bucks. You seem to have a lot of certainty about the behaviour of a huge amount of people.

"everyone finds a small crack in their windscreen, so they whack it with a hammer and claim insurance"

I call BS. Stop with generalising your anecdotes . That's like me saying that I've got a great aunt who lived to 102 and smoked a pack a day, so obviously smoking doesn't cause any health issues for anybody. BS.

[NevisDog]

I'm starting to enjoy this. But folks (everyone?) are getting upset, so let me try to explain more clearly.

Back in the day, I had an engine that ran just long enough to get me into trouble. Much later, when I dismantled it for spare parts, I found the crankshaft was pitted from lying idle too long and the bearings must have overheated and seized each time I used it but it sure taught me how to stay out of trouble and never rely on any single item aboard. I see others heading to the fuel dock, take on fuel/water and head off. Me, I spend an hour readying two anchors (fore and aft) for instant deploy, I get the main ready to hoist instantly, then wait till after high tide, so if my engine ever falters I'll be swept back out to the channel where I can anchor or sail away, no worries. If I didn't spend that hour then any of a million things goes wrong I'm in trouble. If I let my wife take us to the fuel dock then almost every decision she makes, I cringe, as she is laying herself out for trouble if anything went wrong. She just doesn't see that crossing ahead of a moored catamaran is not as safe as crossing behind it: she sees it stationary, I see it coming towards us at 3 knots as the tide sucks us sideways. All this stuff is built into my psyche; I hate to see folks rely solely on engines, or not prepare their anchors, or tow their dinghy while manuevring. If everyone (okay most people!) was this careful, we could reduce the accident rate to somewhere near zero, at least with sail-assisted boats.

I do apologise for generalising. Everyone is sooo intense!!!

[lateral]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I'm not immune to accidents but I see others taking extreme risks that I would never take.

So, you are not immune to accidents. Does that mean none of them will be your fault?
And in the remote occurrence, that elements out of your control, conspire to compromise your expert safe handling, would you accept responsibility out of your pocket, if it is your fault?
If so, you may need big pockets.

Not getting at you. Just curious. I dislike ICo's with a vengeance. And, at this stage I'm not so self assured to go without.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by lateral

...And in the remote occurrence, that elements out of your control, conspire to compromise your expert safe handling, would you accept responsibility out of your pocket, ...

Sure.

[NevisDog]

Darn, that post above was too quick - I already said I would never sail in American waters without maximum cover. Here is very different in many ways.

[lateral]

Sometimes when you exercise your ROW, ie on strb them on port, both powered up, 20knts gusting hi 20's you looking like your going to cross just ahead.
You can see they are aware, but holding their layline until the last minute before dipping.
Do you just pike out way early & dip for them, dumping the main and taking the weather fully on the beam?
Nah, we don't do that.
Except if they are bigger.....or racing

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by lateral

Sometimes when you exercise your ROW,...

Uh-oh, no such thing as 'exercise RoW' - just obligations: obligation to stand on, or obligation to give way (I bin readin' StuM and Dockhead!).

[Wotname]

Now I see why one needs so much insurance in the USA...

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