More Canadian Questions

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by fxykty

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As for bringing the boat up the West Coast, don’t even think about it if you’re not prepared to go via Hawaii. That coast has no safe harbours (without bars) between San Francisco and Vancouver Island, so should be treated as an offshore passage. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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I beg to differ. I did this trip in the summer of 2016.

I've posted our log here:

Travels with Aquavite: San Francsico Bay to British Columbia 2016

[Cheechako]

The sales tax in WA will be 8-8.3% if you buy there and keep it there, or if you buy in a state with no tax and return it to Washington.. You could moor the boat somewhere like Point Roberts close to the border.
Another option is buy where you want, and sell it when returned from cruising. I believe most states dont charge a tax for the boat to be in the state and up for sale with a broker as it would discourage business. But you need to research the specific state. One boat I bought in Annapolis, left after a few months for FLorida, left Fl after a few months and sailed the Caribe. Returned to FL and put the boat for sale for 1.5 years.

[hellosailor]

Another consideration would be where the OP intends to sail and for how long. Going down to Hawaii means re-entering the US, and a Canadian flagged boat will need a cruising permit, which is valid for one year and then may or may not be renewed after exiting the US for 15(?) days. Trans-ceanic entries (Hawaii and then perhaps California?) may be viewed as entering and exiting and re-entering the country, each entry being another potential issue.

So whether to keep the boat US-documented, or US state registered, could depend on the longer plans. Also, if the "girlfriend" is the owner of record, it IS HER BOAT. Something else to be considered in a larger context. (For instance, if a tax/collection agency came after her, the boat could be seized.) Something to be considered and planned for.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I beg to differ. I did this trip in the summer of 2016.

I've posted our log here:

Travels with Aquavite: San Francsico Bay to British Columbia 2016

Very interesting reading and great info for the OP. Day sailing up the coast is certainly an option.

But I still stand by my “no all weather harbours” - by your own description none of the places you stopped prior to Neah Bay would have been suitable in any sort of moderate or worse weather. So a day sail towards a weather closed bar/harbour suddenly becomes an overnight sail on a lee shore. Not something for someone inexperienced.

[Download7]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I beg to differ. I did this trip in the summer of 2016.

I've posted our log here:

Travels with Aquavite: San Francsico Bay to British Columbia 2016

Great info thanks for sharing that.

Originally Posted by travellerw

Not true at all for a Canadian boat.. It matters not where the transaction occured, taxes are due when the boat enters Canadian waters (if Canadian registered).. Sailing it offshore with a newspaper will gain you ZERO here!

Also great info thank you.

Originally Posted by groundtackle

I imported my boat from the US. Contact Marine Documentation Services in Anacortes and they'll help you with the registration.

Great tip thanks


Thank you everyone for all the help

[Download7]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

So whether to keep the boat US-documented, or US state registered, could depend on the longer plans. Also, if the "girlfriend" is the owner of record, it IS HER BOAT. Something else to be considered in a larger context. (For instance, if a tax/collection agency came after her, the boat could be seized.) Something to be considered and planned for.

Definitely leaning away from this idea now.

I've started looking at cheaper boats just to leave more headroom for all these extra fees.

[Download7]

Originally Posted by Charlie

The 10% only applies if you register it in California. Oregon has no sales tax and you can register it there. I don't know what the WA state tax is but it should be easy to find with a google search. I live in CA. I bought a boat in Canada and the plan was to sail it south and turn left at the canal. I registered it in MT. I met all the requirements. I did not have to pay $20k in taxes. I'm not sure it was worth it. We sailed as far North as Desolation Sound and as far south as La Paz. The hassle factor was tremendous.

How could you say saving 20,000$ wasn't worth the hassle???

[gulfislandfred]

I'm a dual US/Canadian citizen. I have imported several boats from Washington, and California.

1. You get credit for any taxes you pay where you buy the boat, against any Canadian taxes. If the boat will eventually be in BC, you will, sooner or later, pay sales tax. Sales tax is based on the value stated in the bill of sale.

If you import a boat made outside of the US or Canada, be prepared to pay an additional 9.6% duty on the stated sale price. Period. Full stop. Unless the price is very low, this is a deal breaker.

I have heard stories of people who bought boats from private owners, and made separate bills of sale for the sails, and the hull with engine. The wording was fuzzy, so one bill of sale was presented at customs. (I would never suggest that a person do this)

If your friend hasn't filed taxes, or checked in with the IRS, I suggest that she might lose a lot of stress if she finds out her status. In most cases, Canadian taxes are higher than US taxes, and you get credit for what you paid in Canada, so you have no back taxes owing. There is a very good CA on Saltspring Island who specializes in this stuff. Start there, no risk. I think you will find that you owe no taxes and fees, and that you can file a simple report once a year if you have over $10,000 in a Canadian bank. They're not after your savings or your home.

Feel free to email and arrange a phone chat. Fred
waterrat@island.net

[Tetepare]

FWIW there are hundreds of Canadian flagged boats on lake Champlain ny with Canadian registration numbers that never leave the lake. Those for sale typically state Canadian duty not paid. Some say not for sale in USA. So legal or not they all seem to avoid some sort of taxation

[smac999]

I have a hard time believing it's cheaper to buy in the US + taxes / hassle then buying in canada? maybe if the dollar goes on par again? but I haven't been looking.

[gulfislandfred]

Here in BC, it's about population/number of boats on the market.

Puget Sound has more boats, and prices are similar. even after the dollar conversion. Sales tax is about the same, in the end. That's for boats made in the US or Canada.

In BC, or Washington, there are bargains to be had, if you know what you're looking at, especially this time of year.

Puget Sound to Vancouver or Victoria is not much different from Vancouver to Victoria, or Sunshine Coast to Victoria.

Mantra for bargain boat hunters:

Sometimes Free is Not Cheap Enough!

[Charlie]

Originally Posted by Download7

How could you say saving 20,000$ wasn't worth the hassle???

I had to move the boat from Canada to Washington State a few times then I had to move it from Washington to Oregon. While yes I did save $20k it also cost me a lot in transportation costs. So while I saved $20k I probably spent $10k travelling back and forth. I also had to hire an attorney to make sure taht I had done all of the paperwork correctly. I think that was another $4k. So the savings was $6k and a fair amount of stress.

[fozrunner]

Does the new CETA agreement b/n Canada and the EU change the duty payable for a European built boat? I did a google search and checked the CRA site but couldn't find any specific information.

I found this on Delphia yachts page

Key destinations for Delphia’s yachts include the United States, Australia and Japan but in recent years the company has also been present in Canada. In each of these cases, transport and logistics costs are a major burden to business, often reaching tens of thousands of dollars. That is why any savings are crucial.

The ratification of the EU-Canada Comprehensive and Economic Trade Agreement, CETA, would eliminate all tariffs on yachts – presently as high as 9.5%.

Originally Posted by gulfislandfred

I'm a dual US/Canadian citizen. I have imported several boats from Washington, and California.

1. You get credit for any taxes you pay where you buy the boat, against any Canadian taxes. If the boat will eventually be in BC, you will, sooner or later, pay sales tax. Sales tax is based on the value stated in the bill of sale.

If you import a boat made outside of the US or Canada, be prepared to pay an additional 9.6% duty on the stated sale price. Period. Full stop. Unless the price is very low, this is a deal breaker.

waterrat@island.net

[gulfislandfred]

That would be good news for French and UK boats purchased in the US to import to Canada.

For Canadians, the new Trans Pacific Partnership might (or might not) take away the duty on boats from Taiwan or Hong Kong

Then again, we might lose the NAFTA exemption soon.

[fozrunner]

Idid some searching and came up with a tariff schedule. Sailboats are under 8903.91.

The following table is messed up, but the old MFN tariff (Most Favoured Nation) was 9.5%. The last column shows Preferential tariffs (CCCT to UAT) to be tariff free. This includes CEUT - CEUT Canada-European Union Tariff.

So it looks like sailboats of EU manufacture are now duty free. Like gasoline prices when crude oil prices drop, I don't expect imported yachts for sale in Canada to miraculously drop in value by 10%, but if importing one ourselves I suppose we would only be liable for HST/GST.

8903.91.00 - -Sailboats, with or without auxiliary motor 9.5% CCCT, LDCT, UST, MT,
MUST, CIAT, CT, CRT,
IT, NT, SLT, PT, COLT,
JT, PAT, HNT, KRT,
CEUT, UAT: Free
GPT: 5%
- - - - -With auxiliary motor:
11 - - - - - -Of a length not exceeding 9.2 m .................................................. ........ NMB
12 - - - - - -Of a length exceeding 9.2 m .................................................. .............. NMB
- - - - -Without auxiliary motor:
21 - - - - - -Of a length not exceeding 4 m .................................................. ........... NMB
22 - - - - - -Of a length exceeding 4 m but not exceeding 6.5 m............................ NMB
25 - - - - - -Of a length exceeding 6.5 m .................................................. .............. NMB

here is the link to the pdf-NOTE IT'S ALMOST 1600 PAGES LONG! Don't download on limited internet!

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/trade-com...2017-5-eng.pdf