No Broker?

[Thomas1985]

Do people really buy $50k plus boats on sailboat listings etc?

It seems super sketchy to me to buy something that expensive on a handshake. Has anyone done it? Am I just paranoid?

[Kettlewell]

I agree that most of these deals sound too sketchy for me, but it really depends on the situation. Let's say you see a boat in the same boatyard where you keep your boat for the winter. You're both hauled out. You can ask around about the guy. You can talk to the boatyard management about him. You can maybe even just walk up to the lobby of a local bank together where you exchange the money for the paperwork. That could be OK. OTOH, if I saw a boat listed hundreds of miles away I would really want to do due diligence before committing. Again, if you could ask around about the guy at the yacht club, or the marina, or the boatyard, etc., maybe.

[Thomas1985]

I’ve always been too scared to even reach out on a boat over about $5k…

I do flip through sailboat listings for fun though. Fairly expensive boats are advertised on there all the time. I suppose someone is buying them or owners wouldn’t keep listing?

[A la carte]

Listings are only the marketing vehicle. The purchase/sale agreement can be anything from a handshake to use of an escrow company with a complex contract and contingencies. Having experience with multiple aircraft and boat purchases, I can be comfortable on certain purchases or sales without an escrow company, but I've done deals both ways. I guess it depends on your sophistication in knowing how to protect yourself. Due diligence is your responsibility and an escrow company can work very well.

[Fore and Aft]

Thomas1985 I see plenty of big boat sales of $100,000 plus done on a handshake. I am often amazed at how trusting some people are.
I have also seen plenty of issues when the survey uncovers issues, and the seller does not want to refund the deposit. One deposit I remember went to a couple who spent most of it and they had little chance of repaying it while on the pension.
Cheers

[clamshack]

YBAA has a standard contract that they use. Get a copy of that.

1. Offer
2. Due diligence in an escrow
3. Inspection
4. Counter if any/ Buyer ops out.
5. Insurance
6. Close

[more]

Originally Posted by Thomas1985

Do people really buy $50k plus boats on sailboat listings etc?

It seems super sketchy to me to buy something that expensive on a handshake. Has anyone done it? Am I just paranoid?

i buy but not cheap 50 000 € boat,but real boat 150 000€ +
i know almost all broker. o my good on 80% brooker when i meet them later i must wash hand 1 hour with bleach. i meet surprise good and fer in italy brooker.
for example this is lesson for all who give brooker boat for sale

our offer 150 000€ + 20% vat
talk with owner, if he accept we quick by boat after document check.

brooker
We are ok for 150 000 € ex VAT but the boat needs to stay in our charter fleet for the season
boat fully financed by the owner - 65% of the charter income - Operating charges paid by the owner – owner can use his own boat.
For a boat of this age, the charter income will cover the operating charges

hi simply don't transfer message to owner.

but also i meet huge company saling boat close to deel. no original document
or electronic do deposit. owner is only user. leasing company is owner .fuc--ing spending my time. he think i pay boat he close leasing and give me boat maybe maybe not.



first rule
check local rule.
after check document. pay only wire on bank account on name document. check triple mortage on newer boat

[SailingHarmonie]

Have you ever bought a used car on a private sale? Why is a boat different?

[clamshack]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Have you ever bought a used car on a private sale? Why is a boat different?

Boat purchase has more in common with a house purchase than a car. I’m speaking about the US market specifically.

[Woody]

I think you can look at the issue in reverse, and ask yourself, "What does a broker bring to the table?" and "What is that worth to me?"


These will be different things to the buyer and seller and depending on the boat and other circumstances.


Do you want someone to weed out tire kickers? Are you simply looking for the value of having the boat listed on Yachtworld or other well known websites? Is this your first transaction and want someone to hold your hand through the entire process? Perhaps this person is well connected in the industry and can be helpful streamlining the process? Obviously showing the boat to clients can save you a lot of time, but only if the broker is locally present, otherwise the hard work will still fall on you as the owner. As an experienced buyer, I'm often frustrated at dealing with brokers as I see their involvement as more friction and impediment to the transaction than otherwise, but I have more experience and a better understanding of the market than many.



As someone with more time than money, I'd rather do all of these things myself. To me, there's not much a broker can do that would be worth the price of 10% of the transaction. On smaller transactions, there isn't enough money on the table to be an issue. On a larger boat, 6 figure transaction, I just don't find enough value in the service to be worth it.
Of course, this isn't the case for many people. Lots of owners are very happy to trade the money for a professional to handle the transaction and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.



I think the same conversations are going on in the real estate industry in the USA now, as the prices of homes have skyrocketed and agent compensation has increased beyond what many feel is appropriate for a given transaction. It's easier than ever for a knowledgeable person to cut out middlemen and save tens of thousands using technology. It's not for everyone though and for the less experienced, there's nothing wrong with hiring a professional.

[Jammer]

The grand fallacy here is the idea that involving a broker guarantees anything.

Using a broker improves your odds somewhat in that the broker will impress upon both the buyer and seller that there is a standard sequence to doing things, offer, acceptance, down payment, survey and sea trial, adjustment of offer based on survey and sea trial, funds wired, documents completed and notarized.

The problem of a $50,000 boat is that there's enough money at stake that, as a buyer, you really do want to go through all the steps, but the frictional costs for doing so become a larger portion of the total purchase price than they would be for a more expensive boat.


If purchasing a boat from someone who is not using a broker I would be on the lookout for any sign that the deal was going to fall apart, and would keep any down payment or earnest money to an absolute minimum, less than the customary 10%,

[massnspace]

My experience, having inquired about and bought a fair amount of cheaper sailboats via both brokers and FSBOs over the years:

Broker:
-Rare to return calls. Can’t be bothered, I guess.
-If they do, don’t really know about the boat. Lies and dead ends. Once had a broker insist the motor in a boat was a Yanmar, even tho the listing photo clearly showed it was a Volvo. Similar color, I guess?
-Don’t know the history of the boat….maintenance, etc.
-Tries to recommend a surveyor, who they probably know and who probably glosses over defects.
-Adds 10% to the price.

FSBO:
-Returns calls.
-Knows boat, and excited to talk about it (if it’s a good one).
-Happy to draw up and sign a legal P/S contract stating terms of sale. Same as broker would do.
-Much more like to accept a lower offer.

Have never had any FSBO deal go south. Always got deposit back or a good boat.

Granted, these were all “cheaper” boats (30K to 60K), but it worked and worked well….and I have sold many as FSBO too, without issue.

David
Seattle

[Hoosiersailor]

I just purchased a boat that was sold through a broker. The experience was just OK. I would have preferred to be able to talk with the owner directly on some things but everything was passed through the broker. In this case it was owned by a Canadian couple and the boat was in FL so I'm sure for them it made sense. The broker was a good resource for some things.

I also just sold an aircraft myself without a broker and honestly that was lot easier. The new owner was financing it so everything went in to an escrow and then at closing funds were distributed. Not difficult at all.

Both the boat purchase and the aircraft sell were for much more than the OPs $50k

[cemdev]

Like buying or selling a house. If the other party is decent, way easier to go direct, manage deposits through escrow. The only value a broker brings is in emotional control if the other party doesn't have any. They can smooth over kinks. They can save you a bunch of hassle/time if dealing with an inexperienced buyer/seller. That's about it.

[Rol1964]

I think a good broker can see through the somewhat inevitable emotional reactions of both buyer and seller, during the generally protracted transaction...and keep the deal moving forward, by using their emotional intelligence to support both parties. Way easier said than done.