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docwood · 28-07-2019, 06:08

I am not yet able to join the boat ownership life (3 years out) but am trying to continue to educate myself. Read a study recently that said that well maintained fiberglass based hulls were still showing no signs of fatigue at 50 years. As I continue to search boats I am beginning to think that buying a 40 year old boat well maintained at say $40000 may be a better deal than a 15 year old well maintained boat at say $120,000. It leaves me a lot more upgrade/maintenance money to start with. My budget will allow me to set aside $8,000-$10,000 annually for upkeep. Am I wrong in going older if the previous owner has at least done a reasonable job of updates as needed. Although new boats obviously nice engineering improvements, etc some of the older boats have wonderful design, wood, etc. I plan on being on the boat 3-4 months a year. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

thomm225 · 28-07-2019, 06:41

You will get lots of different opinions on this. (and btw, what size boat are you looking for?)

First, if you do buy an older boat make sure to select a good one and then it has to be in good shape

If you haven't owned too many boats, these two sites provide some good boat choices and also good advice.

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html

Mahina Expeditions - Selecting A Boat for Offshore Cruising

I paid $2,000 for my boat and have been sailing it since a month after I bought it in 2011.

I did painting etc during the off seasons since then. So far I've had to replaced nothing structural

But I have replaced (or added) over an 8 year period the:

Mainsail

Main sheet

Lifeline (with Polyester/Dyneema)

Halyards

Engine

Autopilot

Tiller

AC Inverter

Solar Panels and Controllers

Batteries

Dodger

Mainsail cover

Cabin Lamps to LED

Interior shades

Interior paint

Bottom Paint (3X)

Deck Paint

It's can be enjoyable making a Good Old Boat look nice again

Also if you do buy an older bottom make sure it is loaded with everything it needs

Mine had 5 anchors, 2 sets of 250' rode and heavy chain, Depth, GPS (2), dock lines, dodger, bimini, autopilot, charts for the whole East Coast from Massachusetts South, almost new jib, and no soft spots

So far I have maybe $10,000 - $12,000 in it which includes the purchase, all the additions, and the paint jobs

My boat is 45 years old. HIN says July 1974

Mike OReilly · 28-07-2019, 07:15

A well designed, well built, well maintained older boat can be an excellent choice. Probably your best bang for your boat buck, assuming you’re OK with older designs, with their pros and cons.

Along with focusing on well designed & built boats, I would also focus on substantive maintenance and upgrades over more consumable items. Newer rigging, engine, chainplates, electrical, plumbing, etc. would rank higher in my list vs stuff like basic electronics, running rigging, canvas or even sails. That stuff can be replaced pretty easily, especially with all the money you’re saving by buying older.

gonesail · 28-07-2019, 07:45

what you want is an older boat where the owner has maintained and improved it .. then decided to sell it to you

Cheechako · 28-07-2019, 08:13

Older boats can be a good thing. Especially layup schedules, and to some extent design if you like traditional keels and rudders. Fiberglass does age, get brittle etc though. I don't know how to tell from a good old boat or one at risk regarding that. A 1" thick hull under water may not be an age problem, but a deck attachment area that is thinner, pierced by fasteners, old sealant, and out in the sun for 50 years may be. There are a few reports of old boats coming apart at the deck to hull joint. I suppose it an area of concentrated stress in rough conditions.

The other thing I will say about restoring old boats, or old cars as far as that goes: The old saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear" comes to mind. Fixing and repairing old things, even with the best intentions, often leaves you after realizing that it's just not going to be like new.

To me the systems on an 8-10 year old boat are often as bad as a decades old boat. That seems to be the time frame for things on a boat like rigging, sails, water pumps and heaters, valves, shafts electronics etc. So whatever age the boat is, every decade or so it needs many things.

Personally I would shy away from most (not all maybe) boats that are too old. My last go around mid 80's was about the age limit for me. There was a huge difference in 80's boats vs 70's boats then. Now it's probably more like 90's boats or newer.

thomm225 · 28-07-2019, 08:26

As far as the strength of some of these older boats go, I almost sold mine at first due to seasickness and a crappy smelly old diesel

Once I left my boat at the end of a T dock loosely tied and a strong storm came through banging the boat against the dock. (I didn't care because the plan was to sell it or give it away, but then I changed my mind. Plus blowing chunks while making furler repairs underway builds character)

The tide came and went. When I finally got back over to the boat which at that time was 75 miles away, it had sawed maybe 1/5 of a piling off in the vertical.

I have slammed docks and pilings with it . Once my bow sprit/anchor platform took a huge chuck out of a piling then slammed and damaged the dock.

I had lots of sailing and boating experience but zero docking experience when I bought my good old boat.

As far as the late 80's early 90's electronics that came on my boat, it is just now starting to fail

I've replaced things on my boat as needed. Next in 4 more years will be the rigging and I'll inspect the chain plates at that time

All thru hulls are closed on my old boat

sailorboy1 · 28-07-2019, 08:46

[QUOTE=docwood;2940667. Am I wrong in going older if the previous owner has at least done a reasonable job of updates as needed. Although new boats obviously nice engineering improvements, etc some of the older boats have wonderful design, wood, etc. I plan on being on the boat 3-4 months a year. Thoughts? Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]

All that matters in boat buying are the boat features you want and the condition of the boat in comparison to price. "Modern" design boats are now getting to being 20 years old, which is the age the "old" boats were when the current old vs modern "discussion" began. Kind of seems about the same time internet forums started up

Any 15 year old plus boat that has been maintained and upgraded is probably going to be a good buy because the owner will never get back the costs of the refits/upgrades.

**sailorchic34** · 28-07-2019, 10:05

My old Islander 34 is now 47 years old. I purchased her when she was a sprightly 35 years old. What sold me was first I could afford it. It had a lovely shear with just a dash of tumble home, and it had been re-powered in 1994.

Electronics were old mostly original. Electrical was old and the plumbing leaked. But it had a solid fiberglass hull and a solid deck.

in the first 4 months, I installed new plumbing and electrical including new cabin lights. Installed new radio, and chartplotter and even a new compass (old one was bad). I purchased a spool of double braid and made all new halyards and sheets. I purchased a new 100% working jib and a used $300 lightly used mainsail.

In 12 years of full time living aboard and sailing about the SF Bay and delta, There are a few more crazings in the old gel coat and a few more blisters on the hull. Both are cosmetic and like my wrinkles add character.

Older full keel, barn door rudders take a bit of learning in backing as they back like a drunken elephant. The key is full left or right rudder and putting the prop in neutral once a bit of way is on backing. They tend to be slower, At least mine is. And the older CCA bow design means she has a bone in the teeth going to weather. That makes for a dryer cockpit, most of the time. A plus in my book.

Downsides are they are narrower then the wide body modern sailboats from the 90's+ so less interior space for same length. I for one have been very pleased with my old boat. Just plan of spending a bit more on upgrades.

barnakiel · 28-07-2019, 10:11

What do you understand by 'updates'?

How do you envision updating a grp hull? Extra coat of glass? Replacement of ribs? (Ooooppsss - no ribs in most grp hulls!!!

OR MAYBE Curing osmosis?

Look. My personal take is materials age and any 40 y.o. hull is 40 years old. How bad this sounds depends on some factors - like:

- what was the initial quality (HR?Rustler?PS?) or Bavaria?

- how much time was spent in the water (some boats 40 years, others most of the time on dry),

- how much use it got (e.g. a light racer vs. a boat that never left the dock).

Old boats are old. Just like old people are old. I no longer run marathons nor do I compete on the short track Yes, I did. When this old hull was young.

You sound like your budget is 120k. Or in the worst case 40k.

I have just skipped a 32' boat in fabulous condition and able to cross the pond. Asking was 11k (EUR money, about 15k). Similar boats sold here last year at 5 -15k. All of them old, all of them capable of some minor but otherwise very pleasant sailing adventures.

Old, inexpensive grp boats are aplenty and there will be more in 3 years. Old owners are dying out, young people want Lagoons. You will buy what you want. And if you are reasonable for way less than 40k.

BTW Have just looked up yachtworld the other day to find a She36 at 20k (GBP). Read Webb Chiles' feedback on what he thinks about this old design. 20k, not 40, not 120.

Old boats are old things, and getting older.

Cheers,
b.

thomm225 · 28-07-2019, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Old boats are old. Just like old people are old. I no longer run marathons nor do I compete on the short track Yes, I did. When this old hull was young.

Old boats are old things, and getting older.

Cheers,
b.

Well that may be true with humans but with boats, it's a different matter.

Here's Anita sailing herself through the effects of a hurricane. Video was taken by the rescue helicopters that couldn't assist. Crew members are injured.

She was built in 1938.

12 Metre Class | Yacht ANITA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKusg6Jyc9Y

barnakiel · 28-07-2019, 15:12

My boat is 40 years old, how old is yours, Thomm?

For more folklore discussing of how old is old, I suggest reading the threads devoted to disappearance of Niña. Here at CF. These were quite long and exhaustive. If one is too lazy, here is a gist:

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...ce-of-the-nina

If old boats do not get older, then why was HMY Britannia decomissioned after "only" 43 years in service. I assume some posters believe HM cannot afford proper maintenance and 'updates'. (???)

Also, books on engineering have been wrong all along. Material ageing is a fad.

;-)

Face it, boats get older, just like you and me, and cars, and planes. At a point, all these get too old to merit further maintenance.

+++love to everyone,
barnakiel

thomm225 · 28-07-2019, 16:00

My boat is 45 years old B.

It's a Bristol though so I hope that helps.

I was thinking today that after sailing this boat for 8 years I'm finally starting to get to know it.

Today was a nice light air day with winds from about 6-10 knots and rotating to the South as I headed North. So I sailed close hauled North for about 6 miles then had a nice reach back

Btw, this boat was out of Falmouth, MA which probably means it spent Winters on the hard which I hope prolongs it's life.

The PO left it near here after his 2 year cruise to Florida and the Bahamas. (2004-2006 going by the magazines and calendars onboard) It then sat on the hard for 5 years.

The PO used an old stencil to paint the boat's name on. I have painted the boat a few times but left that part alone.

I never met the PO.

Tom

brendanwalls · 28-07-2019, 16:05

From Wikipedia, with reference to the RY Britannia, but no reference to it being too old. It receives 300,000 tourists a year.

Decommissioning
In 1997, the Conservative government committed itself to replacing the Royal Yacht if re-elected, while the Labour Party refused to disclose its plans for the vessel. After Labour won the general election in May 1997, it announced the vessel was to be retired and no replacement would be built. The previous government had argued that the cost was justified by its role in foreign policy and promoting British interests abroad, particularly through conferences held by British Invisibles, formerly the Committee on Invisible Exports.

It was estimated by the Overseas Trade Board that events held onboard the yacht helped raise £3 billion for the treasury between 1991 and 1995 alone. The new government said the expenditure could not be justified given other pressures on the defence budget, from which a replacement vessel would have been funded and maintained. Proposals for the construction of a new royal yacht, perhaps financed through a loan or by the Queen's own funds, have made little headway.

The Royal Yacht's last foreign mission was to convey the last governor of Hong Kong, Chris Patten, and the Prince of Wales back from Hong Kong after its handover to the People's Republic of China on 1 July 1997. Britannia was decommissioned on 11 December 1997. The Queen, normally stoic, is reported to have shed a tear at the decommissioning ceremony that was attended by most of the senior members of the Royal Family.