Pitfalls of Buying a Boat Unseen?

[bottomend]

Originally Posted by pina.banana

OK, here is sort of a sum-up of what we've learned so far:

I'd like to thank everyone who posted constructive input here - aside from just stating the obvious. Of course we know that "the idea is crazy" and "buying a boat is stupid in the first place", I've owned and lost the entire value on one boat already. No matter, mine and the crews experience is a completely different discussion that I've had with people with a lot of mileage already.

I posted here because I expected a lot of resistance (why else post in any forum?), and to see if there would come up more aspects that we hadn't considered. I couldn't possibly cover everything in our plan so I understand that it looked very superficial to a lot of people. But, especially, I was hoping for advice on how to handle brokers, surveyors and the initial check-up of the boat and market in our case where we don't have the opportunity to take much time in the market we're looking at. It's an unfortunate position, but not enough to deter us completely.

All in all, it's been very interesting to read, and very sobering. I am an optimist by nature and I absolutely need some devils advocates around me. It's been nice to see that we have already covered most of the major issues brought up here such as money, time, the space and people together, safety etc. However, I have clearly underestimated how hard it would be to get an understanding of the market in the area and the amount of time and work needed on the type of boat we'll get for our money, and I'm glad I found this out now so we at least can start the process of buying earlier.

And yes, I will be going over to at least have a look at some prospective boats, meet our agent etc. The posts of what to check out convinced me that I actually can contribute quite a bit to the assessment myself, as I should be able to cover at least most of the important stuff even though I'm no expert at all.

Big question though: When in the process is it best to go (I can only go once, for maybe 4-5 days). Early, to have prospectives and choose a boat to bid on? Or later, where we'll will trust our broker (sorry guys) to find something, put in a bid where we get a deal that seems good (don't bother flaming us more over that one :-]) and then head over to do the last check up before we sign the deal?
If we go early it's a greater chance we won't get any of boats i'm going to look at - if we do it later we have already bid on a boat that might not be the best we can do but we'll know what we're buying and can start getting repairs and outfitting done.
At any rate, this will let us check up on the job our broker is doing, by the way we're only looking at options where a large broker is selling - not some shady deal that our guy might bring to the table from nowhere.
Another important question I'd love some input on is: What else would be a good use of time there? I'm thinking to go a little boat-to-boat round to ask about the reputation of the brokers involved, references, work and prices, where to get things done and so on.

All in all, we are now are lot more psychologically prepared that we will have to have enough time and money to do more work than we initially thought we could get away with. We have a whole year set aside for the trip so we know we can make it, even if it turns out we get stuck for 2-3 months on Tahiti to do repairs. Additionally, I have read there are pretty good facilities for getting work done in Panama - by the time we get there I am sure new problems will have risen due to the voyage that wouldn't be discovered during the sea-trial. Does anyone have any experience with repairs in this particular corner of the world?

This weekend we had our fourth gathering/meeting which we've been holding regularly to discuss, make sure we're all on the same page and divide labour and research. Even though we've been planning this actively for over a year our time budget for actually buying the boat seems slim. This is because it took a while to settle on a good crew who would be able to make the time for this, and the budget changed with the change in crew. I argue that the composition of people is even more important than the boat you end up with (assuming it's not a wreck). Now we have a great bunch of men and women who have everything in order. All we need is our boat..

Again, thanks for all the input so far!

Erlend
the Pina Banana project

IDEA IS NOT CRAZY AND CAN BE DONE, USE AN ESCROW ACCOUNT YOUR BANKER CAN SET UP IF YOU PUT DOWN THE 250K USD. NO PROBLEM. REPAIRS AFTER CLOSING ARE YOUR PROBLEM AND YOPUR SEY TO JET{SAIL}. TEPAIRS ETC. OF COURSE OR YOUR PROBLEM. LEY US KNOW HOW THAT GOES. note to self... mist get lighted keyboarg on next laptop for more accurate spelling at night.. cheers

[tbodine88]

They bought the boat already, geez.

Plus I don't like the poll. I'd like to add, they'll make it all the way.

I think the fact that the first post was back in September(?) was a good idea on their part.

[Dragon Lady]

Hey PB,

nice cat, you appear to have bought well!
03 FPs have pretty good build and equipment quality and the Bahias don't seem to have the osmosis issues that other models of the vintage have.
Your chances of making it all the way to Queensland are very good.
Make sure you read up on the procedure for entering Australia.
Also be care uploading fuel in places like the Galapagos Islands it can be very dirty and rusty.
Carry plenty of spares as there isn't much available in the Pacific.

Looking forward to watching your Pacific crossing and retracing your footsteps.

[Cormorant]

I'm not on Facebook. . . . Can anyone post a little summary of what Pina Banana is up to?

I wish them all the best of luck.

[savoir]

Have you nothng better to do ?

[pina.banana]

Cormorant, we also have a webpage at Blue Marble | Crossing the Pacific in the wake of history with info and updates.

Again, thanks to everyone who has posted comments and thoughts on what to consider and watch out for - much appreciated!

[Tony B]

Personally, I think buying a boat sight unseen is pure insanity. I don't believe photos, surveyors I have never met and owners that want to get rid of their boat - all referencing the same boat thousands of miles away.

[pina.banana]

One of the things we have learned from this forum and other places (including advice from our very excellent broker at the little ship company) is that we had initially allowed for too little time to prepare the boat. We see that with at least two weeks shipping for anything to get to the caribbean, things take quite a bit more time than expected.

To remedy this, we started to get the boat outfitted while on the dry at Peakes Yard on Trinidad. WM installed and standing rigging changed. The last part was more to be on the safe side than a critical issue. The price on the boat thankfully gave us a quite ample budget for fixing it up.

To save time and money we didn't do a seatrial as we decided to rather get the bottom painted and throughhulls fitted while it was still on the dry. The sails and one of the engines are new anyway, and we tested the rudder, instruments and both engines on the dry. Still it's a bit risky to buy without a seatrial of course, so it'll be interesting to see what shows up when the boat is moved to St. Martin by a professional crew over the next few days.

The way we see is that we know we'll change the running rigging anyway and we did the deal knowing there will be some extra expenses for stuff that'll fail at sea. However, the boat is clearly very well taken care of and we got first hand accounts and surveys of the boat as it was phased out and put on shore. So the risk of big and pricey surprises should be slim, but of course we'll be very anxious to hear how the trip went when they arrive in SXM!

In the end - to get back to the inital question of the thread. I would say that the trip I did as leader of the project to Trini to look at the boat and sign the deal didn't do much except letting all of us involved sleep better at night. Actually, the boat looked even better than we had dared hope for. So it wasn't strictly necessary but I'm still very glad I did go to see it. With a good broker and an escrow account I would definitely claim that buying a boat like this unseen is quite possible and not just a big gamble with money. Of course, this wouldn't necessarily apply to the next prospect and we might have been lucky this time - but by doing your research well and not rushing to buy it is not an insane thought :-)

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Tony B

Personally, I think buying a boat sight unseen is pure insanity. I don't believe photos, surveyors I have never met and owners that want to get rid of their boat - all referencing the same boat thousands of miles away.

I bought mine sight unseen, I researched it, Knew its history, had heaps of piccys to look at, and thousands of miles away, And I never met any one that I was dealing with. But they all checked out when I looked up their details through other means,
I got myself a very good boat at a very good price,
It had been trucked across America to Morro Bay CA, from Annapolis, MD, It had Been sailed to Hawai, Tonga, Tahiti, New Caledonia, Vanuatu, Bundaberg, and back to Fiji where I got it from,
It was surveyed in and out of the water,
When I stepped onto it in Fiji it was the first time I had seen it,

It depends a lot on where it is and where its been,

I wasnt dissapointed with my boat,

And Pina Banana likes his boat as well,

[Dragon Lady]

Hi again PB, if you are going to St Martin contact Peter Cohen from Caribbean Mulitihulls.
He is the local FP agent and a very nice guy, you will find he can be of great assistance to you.

Whilst you are up on the hard check the rudder bearings.
They have a tendency to seize up, then the shaft turns on the inner race which wears badly and you then end up with a sloppy rudder which causes a very annoying clunking sound at anchor.

Good luck, I think you are on a winner!

By the way I bought my cat before seeing it and nearly two years later am very happy with it.

[Jimbo485]

So, pina.banana, how are things working out? Are you down in the San Blas, enjoying life with the Kunas and doing a few upgrades? Or are you in St Maarten, blowing your budget and pulling your hair out?

Hopefully, it is the first.

How about an update?

[manitu]

I guess erlend will tell the story himself sooner or later , but from the norwegian entries in their blog , I would say that they have found some of the pitfalls of going ofshore in an untested (or barely tested) boat.

They've had a leaking seawater hose , inside leak from the deck shower , and "notoriously" leaking hatches.

allso snapped the spinnaker hayard, one stanchion (snapped by the boom preventer)

Position as of yesterday: 02′ 98” N, 44′ 46” W

.manitu

[savoir]

So is " notoriously " Norwegian jargon for " leaks like a sieve " ?

[Jimbo485]

If they are the only issues, it sounds like the gamble paid off. Well done.

[manitu]

Well , since english is my second language and my vocabulary is somewhat limited, you just have to bear with me or wait until they udate this tread themselves. Or.. You could learn norwegian, and translate their blog.
Notoriously.. as in leaks all the time. Is'nt that correct english?

I must say , I admire their courage , but I wouldn't take their course. I bought my boat unseen , but for 1800$. Sounds like they have wrecked equip costing a lot more by inexperience and that I can't afford. no I'll learn the ropes coastal sailing in a cheap boat , before spending the big cash when I know what I want , and know how to sail it.

.manitu