Reasonably safe Crypto funds when traveling.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by PaulCrawhorn

Legality is not the issue, security is.

So when they find you transferred $10k across the boarder (illegal and not hard to track)...Mr. Govt agent stops by and collects the whole amount and says thank you.

Doesn't seem very secure or legal.

[Simi 60]

I would have thought beanie babies or tulips safer (-;
At least I can have them on board to see if they actually exist.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

So when they find you transferred $10k across the boarder (illegal and not hard to track)...Mr. Govt agent stops by and collects the whole amount and says thank you.

Doesn't seem very secure or legal.

$10K has been for many years the legal amount of cash you are allowed to enter and leave many countries with.
Strangely it is $US10K there and $AU10K here . Introduced in late 80's at 10K and never indexed.

In Australia was also the figure for cash deposits before they had to be notified by the bank to the ATO.
A friend was a bank manager in an area know for cash crops.... said they started getting lots of $9999 deposits.

Same with the stamps - you just drip feed them.
In the UK nobody cared about the money coming in - it was South Africa that was concerned about the money going out.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

$10K has been for many years the legal amount of cash you are allowed to enter and leave many countries with.
Strangely it is $US10K there and $AU10K here . Introduced in late 80's at 10K and never indexed.

In Australia was also the figure for cash deposits before they had to be notified by the bank to the ATO.
A friend was a bank manager in an area know for cash crops.... said they started getting lots of $9999 deposits.

Same with the stamps - you just drip feed them.
In the UK nobody cared about the money coming in - it was South Africa that was concerned about the money going out.

Not sure about Australia but most countries default to $10kUSD or something close to that in the local currency. $10kAUS isn't that far off, so it may be nothing more than currency fluxuation. No it hasn't changed in a long time. I suspect, they originally set it at $10k when that was a huge amount of money, no one reasonably should be moving in cash (at least not without reporting it), so it didn't get a lot of push back...but once in place, they no longer had to justify it while they let inflation gradually reduce the underlying value giving them a freer hand. But honestly, not too many reasons to be carrying $10k in unreported cash across borders that are legal.

And they figured out the $9999 trick a long time ago. It's referred to as "structuring" and will get you the same result. They take the money and you are guilty until proven innocent.

Likewise, it's not just cash but stamps would be considered cash equivalents (gold coins, gem stones, crypto, art works, etc... all can count as cash equivalents). Bring in a couple hundred dollars in stamps, no one is likely to catch on (but why bother). But sell a $20k stamp, expect it to get reported to the local tax authority by the dealer (or the dealers bank) then expect the govt to come calling.

Most countries are more concerned with money leaving because once it's out of the country, it's harder to track and tax...but they do also care about incoming money, just at a lower level.

Crypto is dangerous because there is a permanent record of transactions and they are very hard to hide (unlike in the early dark web days when the authorities really didn't understand what was happening).

[Idaho]

Transporting the memorized crypto wallet's keyword's in your head is not "transferring $25,000" anywhere. The crypto remains on the blockchain, the only thing in your possession is the access code.

Same with the hardware wallet, the paper wallet, and crypto held on exchanges. You do not have it in your possession, thus no financial crime is committed when you cross a border.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Idaho

Transporting the memorized crypto wallet's keyword's in your head is not "transferring $25,000" anywhere. The crypto remains on the blockchain, the only thing in your possession is the access code.

Same with the hardware wallet, the paper wallet, and crypto held on exchanges. You do not have it in your possession, thus no financial crime is committed when you cross a border.

And leaving $25k in your bank account back home is not transferring it.

Where they get you is when you try to actually access it.

Don't operate under the assumption the authorities are stupid unless you are ready to see them take your $25k and not give it back.

[letsgetsailing3]

If you're looking for stability, crypto isn't the place to be.

While the technology is sound, the underlying value is not. Volatility isn't what you want in your "go bag". The conversation quickly goes from philosophy against organized government to needing something to eat.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by cal40john

Make sure you don't lose/throw out your hard drive with your wallet or forget your password.

A report by The New York Times shows that approximately $140 billion in Bitcoin has not been claimed by owners who forgot their keys.

https://interestingengineering.com/1...4280%20million.

Please read about how this actually works. Stupid people do stupid things all the time but you don’t give up driving when an idiot wrecks his car so why would you not use crypto currency when you see an idiot lose their wallet?
When you do this right, you have a hardware wallet that is never connected to the Internet. It generates keys according to an unbreakable encryption algorithm using a master key that you can re-create using a series of random words. When your hardware wallet is lost or stolen, you can buy a new one and initialize it with those “secret words” and you have regained access to your capital.

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you are an internet security expert...true, you can take a lot of time and effort to secure it and provide backup methods, so it isn't lost.

If it's grandma who's been going a bit senile...keep it in the bank. It may not be perfect but it's night and day more secure.

I built part of the Internet but don’t consider myself an Internet security expert. I read and find that the average high school kid can use crypto correctly and knows that on-line wallets and exchanges can be hacked. So while senile grandma is better off with her savings account, most of us must be able to learn a new technology when teenagers can!

Originally Posted by valhalla360

A few well placed EMPs and good luck accessing the block chain to free up your crypto.

When the EMPs affect the area that you are in you do lose access to the block chain. Do you seriously think that you could then go to the bank and get money? No, that is the time you need to dig up the physical silver and gold

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Crypto is dangerous because there is a permanent record of transactions and they are very hard to hide (unlike in the early dark web days when the authorities really didn't understand what was happening).

It does not work like that, there is no and never has been any hiding and it’s not needed. Crypto transactions are public for anyone to see because the ledger is public. This is the power and safety of the system (the bank’s ledger is secret and you can only see your own transactions… if they allow you). Because the ledger is public and never gets erased, your crypto, like cash in your pocket, can’t be taken out of your “account” against your will.

Transactions go from one crypto account to another and are completely untraceable because the “accounts” are untraceable.

The only time something can be traced is when it touches fiat currency at exchanges. Don’t keep a wallet at an exchange or immediately transfer it to a cold wallet. A good hardware wallet generates unique “account numbers” for every transaction, they are genius.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

And leaving $25k in your bank account back home is not transferring it.

Where they get you is when you try to actually access it.

Don't operate under the assumption the authorities are stupid unless you are ready to see them take your $25k and not give it back.

This is incorrect. When you travel abroad and during the trip you use your online banking to transfer $20,000 to someone, they don’t “get you” because what you do is completely legal and normal.

Same for crypto except they can not even know you did initiate the transfer.

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

If you're looking for stability, crypto isn't the place to be.

While the technology is sound, the underlying value is not. Volatility isn't what you want in your "go bag". The conversation quickly goes from philosophy against organized government to needing something to eat.

This is not true. I bought some Bitcoin with Euros a while back and since then the value of the Euro has gone down (everything is more expensive) while the Bitcoin value went up. This is not accidental because fiat currency is devalued by design (they print more to reduce value which lowers their debt) while Bitcoin is a limited resource that, like gold, can’t be made more of. The volatility you see is because of speculation but don’t confuse volatility with value!

[dannc]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

How do you buy a loaf of bread with crypto or a $100 bill?

The money changers will always be with us. In fact it is a pretty good business to be in at any time. Change someone's Euros into US$ - put 5% in your pocket. The next punter that comes by - change his US$ into Euros - put 5% in your pocket.

Someone turns up in Punta del Este and wants to change a kruger rand into pesos -- put 20% in pocket. Next bloke wants to buy gold with his pesos .....

I think I see a change in my career path on the horizon.

That is true as long as the SHTF is not so bad. If there are no money changers, you have a problem converting gold, silver, bit coin, etc. How do you just buy a chicken without any other currency? You sure do not want to trade a gold coin for a chicken and even a silver coin is too much. A piece of the silver coin is likely the value of the chicken. Maybe.

Stamps might work unless the SHTF has really hit the fan and stamps might not be worth anything.

ALCOHOL will almost certainly be of value AND is easily tradable but it is bulky.

George Washington had to lead an army into parts of the new US to enforce taxes on whiskey, aka, The Whiskey Rebellion. The farmers in western parts of the US, which was the Appalachian mountains, would convert grain into alcohol and then transport the alcohol to the east to sell. While alcohol is bulky, it is far easier to transport than the grain that made the alcohol and the alcohol had far more value. Thus the tax and rebellion.

There is no perfect answer to which "currency" to possess in a SHTF situation. But having a variety of "currency" would be a good idea.

Later,
Dan

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This is not true. I bought some Bitcoin with Euros a while back and since then the value of the Euro has gone down (everything is more expensive) while the Bitcoin value went up. This is not accidental because fiat currency is devalued by design (they print more to reduce value which lowers their debt) while Bitcoin is a limited resource that, like gold, can’t be made more of. The volatility you see is because of speculation but don’t confuse volatility with value!

Scarcity doesn't in and of itself create value.

You may get lucky, and buy and sell at the right time, but it won't be because it was an informed decision. You could have just as easily bought and sold at the wrong time.

Are you going to claim that there is no volatility in crypto? That would be just plain wrong. The volatility alone makes it inherently dangerous as a currency, particularly if it's supposed to be your "safe" money.

All of that said, diversification among different stores of value is always a good idea, and crypto could be part of that program, knowing that it's susceptible to high fluctuations in value.

[donradcliffe]

Like Tulips, crypto is just another Ponzi scheme. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Scarcity doesn't in and of itself create value.

You may get lucky, and buy and sell at the right time, but it won't be because it was an informed decision. You could have just as easily bought and sold at the wrong time.

Are you going to claim that there is no volatility in crypto? That would be just plain wrong. The volatility alone makes it inherently dangerous as a currency, particularly if it's supposed to be your "safe" money.

All of that said, diversification among different stores of value is always a good idea, and crypto could be part of that program, knowing that it's susceptible to high fluctuations in value.

On the contrary: scarcity does create value. Always did and always will: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity_value

Read my previous comment: it says Bitcoin has a high volatility so why do you claim I say it does not? There’s nothing wrong with volatility and it is not to be confused with value. Volatility is caused by supply and demand and is just a wave form going up and down continuously. Besides that, there is also a trend, which is the long term direction. The trend for all fiat currencies is down (sharply down, today’s dollar is nothing compared to what it was) and the trend for established crypto currencies like Bitcoin is up (sharply up, but that is compared to fiat currencies that are going down so part of the apparent increase in crypto value is that it is holding value where the fiat currency is losing it (called inflation to confuse the people).

Buying and selling? No, that is speculation and it’s not what this thread is about. There are many fora for the “get rich quick” crowd, this is not one of them. You buy them with fiat currency, precious metals etc. then you can pay with them for goods you buy, which is something very different than selling them.

Buying low is not difficult. Today is fine, yesterday not (went up 9% yesterday), the days before that were fine. We’re in a good time to buy crypto thanks to Trudeau who made people believe crypto currency can be confiscated (can only happen when you do stupid things with it like leave it in an exchange wallet).

On diversification: it is generally recommended to put 5% of your wealth in crypto and another 5% in physical precious metals. These are each a hedge against financial collapse.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

This is incorrect. When you travel abroad and during the trip you use your online banking to transfer $20,000 to someone, they don’t “get you” because what you do is completely legal and normal.

Same for crypto except they can not even know you did initiate the transfer.

Unless you are purposely practicing tax evasion, a $20k transaction will show up and yes, they can find you.

If you are traveling and take a few hundred in cash, you don't have to report it anyway.

If you want to jump thru some hoops and hope not to get stung buying a pack of gum with bitcoin, go for it. You'll probably get away with it, simply because it's not worth their trouble.

If you start transferring tens of thousands across borders without reporting it, good luck with that.