Reasonably safe Crypto funds when traveling.

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

Bitcoin, not crypto. Read “The Bitcoin Standard” by Saifedean Ammous.

“If you don’t believe it or just don’t get it, I don’t have time to convince you.”
—Satoshi Nakamoto

I’m very involved in the bitcoin community and I’m not going to waste my time rebutting all the FUD (Fear, uncertainty and, doubt). Like I said before, do your own research.

Upthread I mentioned that I still have 3 Bitcoin remaining from a purchase of five so I know precisely what you’re saying, I’m not one of the vociferous gallery who have big negative opinions but no knowlege or skin in the game. I just think that “all in” is a risky strategy…. That’s all!

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

Crypto is just fiat by another name. Bitcoin is not crypto. To put it in sailing terms,
Bitcoin is blue water cruisers
Crypto I’d living aboard because it’s just a cheap condo.

I want to purchase bitcoin with cash anonymously, get it on my hardware wallet anonymously, use it anonymously

That's the tricky bit.

Finding a way to get it without excessive keys and kyc controls is difficult.

Even bitcoin ATM's are closing the kyc controls.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by wholybee

If you recall, the original point of crypto was for an anonymous virtual currency that no government could control. So I guess by that standard, since the government has effectively seized control and sees every transaction, the US has converted it to something else that is not crypto.

Well, to be clear, no currency trading on a public blockchain is anonymous in one sense. By virtue of all transaction being on the public blockchain it is significantly LESS anonymous and MORE traceable than any other transactions.

What might have been anonymous at one time was the point of conversion, cash for crypto, crypto for cash. THAT part is now becoming very difficult, at least in the US.

[Star Fire]

Bitcoin is psuedanonymous. That’s the best Satoshi could do and keep the ledger public so it could be decentralized.

As far as risk goes, holding dollar denominated assets is more risky as it introduces counter party risk that I just don’t have the apatite for. Bitcoin outperforming all other investments is part of it. The other part is that I don’t want to own property in a failing empire. US politics is just too much for me. What a shitshow! And I don’t want to have that house tying me down as I sail the world. You don’t really own a house. The government owns everything inside its borders and you are merely granted exclusive rights to it, which can and have in the past been revoked. (Not to me specifically, but it’s happened.). You really only own what you can protect.

And in a more literal sense, the bank owns the house, not me. The bank owns actually all the deposits deposits on their balance sheet, too. What you have is just an IOU from the bank. What’s worse is, the banks actually own the money and they lend it out. They own it and they want it back, with interest.

The US is a debt based economy which is essentially a consumption before production economy. I surprised it’s lasted as long as it has. You cannot consume more than you produce. At some point, the dollar is bound to hyperinflate and then what do we have?

Gold holds value over time. But it’s expensive to send it over long distances. Fiat was revolutionary tech, in its conception. For the first time, you could send money over long distance without cost. Without fiat, the global economy would not exist, or be much smaller. But, now that Bitcoin exists, it’s become obsolete. Bitcoin holds value over time and distance.

And bitcoin never closes. I can send money, from any barstool in the world, to any barstool in the world, instantly and for virtually free, 24/7/365. Bitcoin is the future of money, on that I am 100% certain. Either that or a CBDC. The choice is yours. Choose wisely…

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

As far as risk goes, holding dollar denominated assets is more risky as it introduces counter party risk that I just don’t have the apatite for. Bitcoin outperforming all other investments is part of it. The other part is that I don’t want to own property in a failing empire. US politics is just too much for me.

And bitcoin never closes. I can send money, from any barstool in the world, to any barstool in the world, instantly and for virtually free, 24/7/365. Bitcoin is the future of money, on that I am 100% certain. Either that or a CBDC. The choice is yours. Choose wisely…

Bitcoin is pure speculation, based on nothing.

It may work in any given time frame, and it may not.

It depends on the bigger fool theory, and there do seem to be an unlimited number, so it's not the worst bet. But it's not a currency in the strictest sense, as the value is unpredictable.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Bitcoin is pure speculation, based on nothing.

It may work in any given time frame, and it may not.

It depends on the bigger fool theory, and there do seem to be an unlimited number, so it's not the worst bet. But it's not a currency in the strictest sense, as the value is unpredictable.

I don't understand your last point. The value (what that thing can bring) of any currency is unpredictable. Some more than others, but they are all unpredictable.

Honestly reading this thread I think people are conflating two separate functions of BTC and others; the use of it as a value store and exchange mechanism, and its use as an investment. Two things only partially related IMHO.

[Star Fire]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Bitcoin is pure speculation, based on nothing.

It may work in any given time frame, and it may not.

It depends on the bigger fool theory, and there do seem to be an unlimited number, so it's not the worst bet. But it's not a currency in the strictest sense, as the value is unpredictable.

I think you’re confusing Bitcoin with the dollar. The dollar is based on nothing but the trust of a centralized entity. History is full of breeches of that trust.

Bitcoin is based on cryptography and electrical energy.

Icon took the dollar off the gold standard in 1971. OPEC’s agreement to only accept dollars for oil was violated in 2019 when oil prices went negative. Since then, the Saudís have been accepting remembi and rupees and euros.

The dollar was backed by violence, via the U.S. Militarty. Bitcoin is backed by energy. I’d rather have the asset I don’t need violence to secure. If I memorized a 12 word seed phrase, I can walk across any border in the world and import a trillion dollars and. O one even knows I have it. No amount of violence can take it from me. In fact, killing me won’t even get it from me. I can literally take my bitcoinwith me, when I die, thereby transferring the value of said coins to everyone holding Bitcoin, proportional to the amount they hold.

Bitcoin is literally the only risk-off asset you can own. When this debt bubble bursts, you’ll see. ($34T, so far).

[Shanachie]

Bitcoin is not a store of value or a vehicle to transact business. It is a lottery ticket.


Millions of people are playing a speculative game with Bitcoin. The idea is that the price swings way up and down.


If you guess correctly, you buy low and sell high, netting yourself a pile of money you did nothing to earn.


If you guess wrong, or if the system fails, you lose a pile of money that went to the guy who guessed correctly.


It is a zero-sum game because Bitcoin, in and of itself, does not produce anything. Bitcoin buyers are merely trading money among themselves. If you buy at 40K, you are rewarding the person who bought at say 1K and then sold.



Anyone who has studied economics (as opposed to reading Bitcoin message boards) can tell you there have always been loads of people who made big money in bubbles and scams by doing this.


The guy with the yachts is no surprise. Neither is the crowd of speculators who made billions off the crash of the housing market in 2008.


Just remember the people who lost their homes or went bankrupt because they imitated the "smart people," but weren't smart enough to get out when the getting was good.

[GordMay]

Has anyone seen the movie, “Dumb Money”, or read the book “The Antisocial Network” by Ben Mezrich?
Dumb Money” is based on the true story of everyday people who flipped the script on Wall Street, and got rich by turning GameStop [a video game store] into the world’s hottest company.
The stock price went from $5/share, in 2019, to a high of $483, in January 2021.
More about ➥ https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b09c7605f925b1

Movie Trailer ➥

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmr8YmwnZ3w

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Bitcoin is pure speculation, based on nothing.

It may work in any given time frame, and it may not.

It depends on the bigger fool theory, and there do seem to be an unlimited number, so it's not the worst bet. But it's not a currency in the strictest sense, as the value is unpredictable.

Thats my thought too. Regarding “bigger fool theory” See Gordmays post where the recently created” Robinhood” army of newly minted retail players thought they could beat the market by defeating the shorts only to find that the game was rigged. Yes, a few Robinhood players made money .......but most did not, the house (robinhood and Citadel) to its eternal shame won by blocking trading. I maintain that the retail trading apps like Robinhood were only created to provide the professional traders with a huge pool of “bigger fools” to unload grossly overpriced financial products that no other professional trader would buy. Like adding a few hundred double doors to a cinema for when it catches fire..... the pro’s face less risk of panicking the market in the event of a catastrophic sell off, no pro wants to be stuck in the theatre with unsellable stock in his pockets.
My entire bitcoin sales, 4 in total were difficult and never for cash, only for airline travel, gold and Etherium . Buying Bitcoin was also time consuming and tense but its been an interesting time, particularly the ridicule from the non invested, at this mornings price I’m up $120,000 and if my three remaining Bitcoin dropped to zero overnight I simply don’t care, I already recouped my initial purchase expenditure and I’m not greedy, just happy to quietly watch.

[Star Fire]

Bitcoin is not a gamble. Bitcoin is not an investment. Bitcoin is freedom. Bitcoin is an idea that we don’t need governments to tell us what has value. It’s freedom to spend my money how and when ever I please. It’s freedom from a fiat debt slavery based economy.

Again, let’s get this thread back on track. The question posed in the first post was no “is bitcoin a good idea?” The question was, “How do I safely self custody by bitcoin, living on a boat?”

Although I’m not a liscense financial planner, I am more than qualified to do such. I don’t need or want your financial advice. What I’m looking for here as well as the purpose of this thread, what’s the best way to do it to not actually lose my bitcoin is a boating accident.

2 of 5 multi sig is what I’ve found is the best way without placing too much trust in any one individual. Keep two sigs for yourself and give one each to three trusted friends who do not know each other. Create a deadman switch, in the form of letter to each of them, held my an attorney to be mailed in the event they receive notice of my death.

If anyone has a better idea than that, I’d love to hear it. If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Period.

[sandy stone]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Period.

I don't think that's how internet forums work.

[Shanachie]

Hey Star Fire, don't you have opinions on anchors or lithium ion batteries like other CF members?


I see the bulk of your posts are dedicated to enticing CF members to buy Bitcoin. You don't seem content to wait and get rich off of your strategy. You're compelled to get other people to follow you.


Why would that be?


The people who create bubbles (Satoshi) give themselves lots of shares for free and then cook up an enticing story about how people can get rich quickly by buying some of those shares.


As people get pulled in, the price of the shares shoots up, even though the actual shares have little or no underlying value.


The bubble only keeps swelling as long as more and more people are persuaded to buy shares, which drives the price higher and higher.



So all over the Internet, in message boards such as CF and in social networks, Bitcoin owners spend a lot of time promoting Bitcoin as a great investment to pump up the value of their holdings.


At some point, the number of Bitcoin suckers will dwindle. Probably, the price will drop steeply and maybe even go to zero, unless someone comes up with a new spiel that attracts a fresh crop of suckers.


This is not a game most cruising sailors should be playing. And it's irresponsible to try to lure people into investments where they could lose their cruising money.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Star Fire

I think you’re confusing Bitcoin with the dollar. The dollar is based on nothing but the trust of a centralized entity. History is full of breeches of that trust.

Bitcoin is based on cryptography and electrical energy.

nope, its still based on trust. the trust you can continue to exchange it for things of value. like a fiat currency, bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Bitcoin is not a store of value or a vehicle to transact business. It is a lottery ticket.

That is simply not true and you are conflating two separate functions. BTC is both a value store and a vehicle to transact business. It may not necessarily be GOOD at either of those things, depending in you opinion. But your opinion of it does not negate the fact that people are using it to buy and sell all the time.

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Millions of people are playing a speculative game with Bitcoin. The idea is that the price swings way up and down.
Sure, just like any other investment in any other currency or equity.

If you guess correctly, you buy low and sell high, netting yourself a pile of money you did nothing to earn.


If you guess wrong, or if the system fails, you lose a pile of money that went to the guy who guessed correctly.

Originally Posted by Shanachie

It is a zero-sum game because Bitcoin, in and of itself, does not produce anything. Bitcoin buyers are merely trading money among themselves. If you buy at 40K, you are rewarding the person who bought at say 1K and then sold.

I'm not sure how that is any different than people who trade USD for EU back and forth, or any other currency, except that the supply of BTC is limited whereas governments can, and do, regularly make more of whatever currency.

In both cases the value is based on the trust of its continued existence and the expectation that its managers (in the case of fiat) will make sensible decisions such that its ability to exchange it for things of actual intrinsic value will not decline more than an acceptable amount.

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Anyone who has studied economics (as opposed to reading Bitcoin message boards) can tell you there have always been loads of people who made big money in bubbles and scams by doing this.

Sure, but so what? It impacts neither the value store nor exchange mechanism function. People traded tulip bulbs, it worked for a while. Even today I can exchange tulip bulbs for other things of value. I just need a truck load as the value has declined. The QUALITY of its function has no bearing on whether or not it supports that function.

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Just remember the people who lost their homes or went bankrupt because they imitated the "smart people," but weren't smart enough to get out when the getting was good.

As a mortgage broker during that period I can tell you that most or all of those people were just greedy and stupid.