Salvaging/Purchasing a storm damaged charter boat

[Nani Kai]

[QUOTE=Lake-Effect;2473249]I don't disagree, basically. It's the tiniest bit tasteless to ask it NOW though, isn't it? The hurricanes aren't done, the dead aren't buried, the hungry haven't been fed, the homeless aren't housed... [QUOTE

I think this is the central point. The idea of salvaging and restoring a boat damaged by this disaster crossed the minds of many, if not most CF members, me included. But right now it's about people rebuilding their lives and livelihoods.

It occurs to me that the knowledge and skill of CF members could be put to great humanitarian use by volunteering your time, expertise and labor to helping get these boats off the reef and out of the mangroves and either back into service or responsibly disposed of. I certainly plan to do that as soon as things settle out a little. I have tools, construction and underwater salvage experience and can drive just about any boat down there from dinghy to luxury catamaran. I'm sure there are many others on this forum whose experience makes me look like a rookie. So why not put that experience to use? Am I the only semi-retired guy on CF?

Housing will be an issue but maybe some of the "damaged but unsunk vessels" could be put into use to house volunteers, as well as locals. And what about all those on board generators? Electrical service will be an issue for some time so why not use the boats' generators? Would it be worth it to remove some from the boats, put them on trailers and move them around? Just tossing around some ideas about how to use what's there to the best benefit.

And who knows, maybe while volunteering you might run across that sweat salvage deal.

[AZ Parothead]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

As a former resident of St Thomas (2012-2014), a BVI sailor (Conch Charters happy customer), and a human being I do appreciate the comments and understand why some think its "vulturous" to talk about these opportunities after such a storm.

To be clear, the humanitarian effort takes precedence. I am personally organizing a relief and fundraising effort since many of my friends have lost their homes and livelihoods. Our plan is to fill a container with rebuilding supplies and distribute directly to those in need once the shipping port is open....

From a salvage/recovery perspective the truth is that the charter fleets are mainly investments covered under insurance for exactly these types of situations. Making a claim or attempting to purchase one of these vessels is a business transaction and may be better for the insurer and boat owner in the long run.

In no way am I advocating "stealing" someone's personal dream vessel.

[Mithril Bham]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"1. Can an American go to the BVI and attempt to salvage a storm damaged vessel? "
Sure ya can.

Now stop and consider, the BRITISH VI are governed by the Crown. Not international law, not US law, but THE CROWN.

And any wrecks you think you are touching there, will be governed by their laws. Which are not the same as the US or other parts of the world.

The good news being that Crown prisons are considerably finer accommodations than those in many other jurisdictions! And you won't need a translator to understand the judge.

You have obviously never been in the Tortola jail (if it is still there). LOL

[sailcrazy]

Without a doubt, the humanitarian issues take precedence. Food, medical, shelter, and other such issues need to be addressed now, and first. And no one here has advocated anything differently, at least of what I've read. But....there are lots of damaged boats, some insured and some not, and something will need to be done with them-each of them-eventually. Seems to me the OP was just asking HOW to go about that process, if anyone really knows, so that when the time is right anyone who MIGHT have an interest knows how to legally proceed.

[Mithril Bham]

I believe the truth is that nobody knows how to proceed. Dealing with Brits is one thing. Very thorough and logical. Dealing with the BVI is completely different. Everything is arbitrary. Nothing is necessarily reliable. When I obtained a work permit the process was almost comical. Never knew until the last minute whether I would be accepted or not.
Granted being a US citizen didn't help. A member of the Commonwealth would make it easier but, even then, you are still an outsider.
The best way to proceed would be to partner with a "Belonger". Someone born in the BVI.
Personally I'm sending money the the churches. Community churches in the BVI are integral.

[Iaangus]

Originally Posted by tartanblue

Very sick conversation at this time

If I had the opportunity to buy back my totaled sailboat back from the insurance company for $25,000 and had a person lined up that wanted to buy said boat for $35,000 then I would consider them a saving grace not a vulture. Also If a company was to ship a track loader, excavator and dump truck to an island to clear debris and rebuild infrastructure and said company profited nicely are they also sick? Just wondering.

[wandering rober]

After Hugo went thru BVi , USVI and PR it was many months before any boats were sold . Months went by before any barge cranes arrived , those sales , barges and cranes will work south Florida and east coast of US first .Several hundred boats sat on Culebra for five months before cranes arrived . There will be no rush !

[Alberg30Shill]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Don't be so quick to judge. Although counter-intuitive I believe economists would agree that purchasing one of these damaged boats would have a beneficial impact on the local economy by infusing money where it's needed. Here's another counter-intuitive thought from economists: price gouging is actually beneficial. What we've seen with Harvey & what I've witnessed firsthand in the last couple of days is that when prices are kept artificially low people take more than they need so many end up doing without. When prices are allowed to naturally react to supply & demand this is not the case. When the prices get too high & people can't afford an item it's not bought so the price will naturally come down.

That's a theory that wouldn't affect the rich (who by nature are hoarders) and will still over buy, and regular folk will be left broke to gain essentials like water while corporations extract maximum profit. I do not like your theory. It was tested historically and didn't work, hence the motivation for anti price gouging laws which have served ALL of us well.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Iaangus

If I had the opportunity to buy back my totaled sailboat back from the insurance company for $25,000 and had a person lined up that wanted to buy said boat for $35,000 then I would consider them a saving grace not a vulture.

Damage of this magnitude (boats and marine infrastructure) will require a massive, coordinated effort to mitigate. It's not a used-boat lot. The deals will come.

Also If a company was to ship a track loader, excavator and dump truck to an island to clear debris and rebuild infrastructure and said company profited nicely are they also sick? Just wondering.

Many companies will be contracted to help with the cleanup, and no doubt they will profit nicely. Deliberate exploitation and gouging... I would regard that as a tad sick. Economic theory isn't everything.

[barnakiel]

Only bad rich are hoarders. Good rich are spenders. Think of a clueless son of a billionaire. He does not burn the money, she spends it.

A wasteful rich may be a blessing to a poor local economy.

The trouble is that neither BVI nor St Martin are poor local economies. Their poor billionaires would have to be spending elsewhere.

The press wrongly reported De Niro's resort swept to the sea. There was not so much as a resort. He bought the whole land but the bungalows and the facilities there were marginal. Now the good rich steps in and starts building the promised land. He employs local workforce to restore create and man the resort (to be). Just wait and see.

Money is only use when run hard. Buy a post Irma boat, restore it locally with help of local workforce and you get the badge of honour.

While rebuilding that crap of the boat why not use the same tools, skill and some of your own hard hoarded money and help restore a house in the nearest village.

It is all in our choices.

I anyways hope to be there all winter. If I see need, I will do my best to help. Stuff I build is not pretty, but it is solid and functional. Smile of local people and the friendship are then ours, for ever.

Amen. End of my prayer.

Buy. Build. Share.

b.

[Alberg30Shill]

The clueless son in your example never spends enough to not be rich anymore and that is hoarding.

[barnakiel]

He does not. She does. That's how we know he is clueless.

Not all parallel(-ism)s are examples.

Not all people who spend hoarded. I did not.

Cheers,
barnakiel

[Sawbonz]

Holier-than-thou people who throw around the word "rich" like it's a bad thing make me bristle. If you are in the United States and have food to eat, clothes to wear, and a computer to use to complain that you aren't getting enough handouts, YOU ARE RICH!

I had a tremendous change in attitude when doing a mission to Ethiopia some years ago. Those people are truly poor. No TV, no housing (government sponsored or otherwise), no toilet, maybe a shirt but no pants for the kids....oh, and no food. So give it up and stop complaining just because you can't afford what you think you are entitled to.

/soapbox

[barnakiel]

I will only mildly agree with you.

I grew up in a universally poor country, we never felt poor there.

Now I live in rich Western countries, where people with two cars in the family feel they are poor. I have but the boat and a handful of dollars, I do not feel poor.

At the same time, in my old country, where capitalism stepped in, differences between what people have grew exponentially and now there are many there who feel they are poor.

There is poverty in Africa and there is poverty in America. One thing does not exclude the other.

In the Caribbean you will see bungalows of the rich next to the shanties of the poor. Help rebuilding the shanties, that's all these people have had.

Cheers,
b.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Class Envy works because it works.