Salvaging/Purchasing a storm damaged charter boat

[AZ Parothead]

Hi All,

It is clear that many vessels in the massive St Maarten and VI charter fleets are severely damaged, holed, or sunk. As such, we can expect an influx in insurance claims and "write offs."

A couple questions:

1. Can an American go to the BVI and attempt to salvage a storm damaged vessel?

2. How do insurance companies liquidate these storm damaged boats?

I've spent a bunch of time on the internet today but Maritime law is very complex and murky. Any help would be appreciated.

[UNCIVILIZED]

These are questions that have run through my mind as well. And one other (key) one has to do with strategies for obtaining repair materials, as well as yard space. As almost without question, both will be at a premium. Though despite this, they'll be tougher to come by since more critical items like food, medicine, & housing for locals will take priority. In terms of labor & equipment availablity (like Travel Lifts), & resources coming onto the island(s).

[AZ Parothead]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

These are questions that have run through my mind as well. And one other (key) one has to do with strategies for obtaining repair materials, as well as yard space. As almost without question, both will be at a premium. Though despite this, they'll be tougher to come by since more critical items like food, medicine, & housing for locals will take priority. In terms of labor & equipment availablity (like Travel Lifts), & resources coming onto the island(s).

Yes, I think in the short term the solution would be to re-float and anchor the vessel. My primitive understanding is that all the vessels in the Tortola hurricane hole are environmental risks since that is a mangrove area. Under INTL salvage law any effort to preserve the environment (removing fuel, putting out booms) would be legitimate salvage efforts.

[jbk1]

I'd guess insurance assessor operations are already in place and that the reality is that the middlemen autcion co's / boat yards somehow get a premium invite to the initial stock before anything is put to public auction?

Anybody have any actual experience and knowledge of the reality of this process?

[tartanblue]

Very sick conversation at this time

[Tetepare]

If one of those boats were mine, I'd consider anyone I saw on it to be a looter, not a salvor.

[tartanblue]

Yes one of those is mine but the overwhelming issue related to the local people, their safety and their homes

[Mithril Bham]

Just got communication from a friend's wife who is currently in Italy. Says all communication is down and can't reach her husband by phone. The vultures will descend on the Caribbean. Doing biz in the BVI is difficult during the best of times. Everything will be controlled by the locals. Best to send money to help the poor who are not belongers and will have the most difficult time. Probably to one of the local churches.

[Lake-Effect]

(on preview, magellanyachts beat me to it, but anyway...)


Um, all things considered, especially the fact that the danger is not past and primary humanitarian aid has not even started in most cases... it's probably a wee bit too early to be discussing how outsiders could conceivably profit from someone else's loss.

How about we discuss how we cruisers and charter customers can best aid these islands to get back on their feet?

[Scout 30]

Don't be so quick to judge. Although counter-intuitive I believe economists would agree that purchasing one of these damaged boats would have a beneficial impact on the local economy by infusing money where it's needed. Here's another counter-intuitive thought from economists: price gouging is actually beneficial. What we've seen with Harvey & what I've witnessed firsthand in the last couple of days is that when prices are kept artificially low people take more than they need so many end up doing without. When prices are allowed to naturally react to supply & demand this is not the case. When the prices get too high & people can't afford an item it's not bought so the price will naturally come down.

[Colin A]

As mentioned a bit early for this. But the charter companies will have reps on site at the boats. They will claim the boat is secure and salvage arranged. The insurance company will send in a barge and a crane to start plucking boats ASAP. The boats will be reviewed by surveyors if they are losses they will start showing up on sites like Yacht salvage and Cooper specialty. I don't know of any insurance company that currently does direct auctions. Every thing will go through a third party. When I worked doing claims on yachts our total loss guy would offer to let the owner buy the boat out and occasionally the local marina might get cut in before the auction company but that was rare.

[John_Trusty]

[QUOTE=Scout 30;2473160]Don't be so quick to judge. Although counter-intuitive I believe economists would agree that purchasing one of these damaged boats would have a beneficial impact on the local economy by infusing money where it's needed.[QUOTE]

Considering that most chartered boats are not owned locally, the "beneficial impact" will be to typical dentists or businessmen in Indianapolis, rather than the local economy.

Let's remember that "salvage" is just a nice term for forcing an owner to pay for repair services when he has no choice. Salvaging a boat does not give you title (like 'finders / keepers'). You no more own the boat by stepping on a half-sunken boat than if you came to my yacht club today and stepped on my boat because I just happen to not be aboard. The poor wrecked boats in the photos still belong to people, and with that all the rights and liabilities. Also, prior to packing up and flying to BVI to claim someone's yacht that salvage work is, by definition, difficult, dirty, and dangerous. End of soapbox. Best wishes to the yacht owners that are trying to figure out a legal nightmare that has descended on them.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Don't be so quick to judge. Although counter-intuitive I believe economists would agree that purchasing one of these damaged boats would have a beneficial impact on the local economy by infusing money where it's needed. Here's another counter-intuitive thought from economists: price gouging is actually beneficial. What we've seen with Harvey & what I've witnessed firsthand in the last couple of days is that when prices are kept artificially low people take more than they need so many end up doing without. When prices are allowed to naturally react to supply & demand this is not the case. When the prices get too high & people can't afford an item it's not bought so the price will naturally come down.

As already pointed out, the locals won't much benefit from money involved in salvage or wreck sales, except for maybe some underpaid short-term labour.

Also, economics is neither the only nor the best yardstick for human interaction. Disasters often bring out the best in people when they pull together, or go above and beyond to help out the truly afflicted, in ways that utterly confound economics.

[captlloyd]

Some of you seem to consider this subject taboo and inappropriate. *********. Sure, we wish that all of the people get through this without life or property losses, but in reality we know that is not going to happen. There is no sin in someone discussing the subject of obtaining a storm damaged vessel. My feelings is that the OP would be further ahead in looking into the idea of just purchasing one of these vessels, which by the way will probably take a burden off of the shoulders of its owner. And beside the legal ramifications of salvage you need equipment to pull it off. The owners of these storm damaged boats don't have to sell! They can repair the boats themselves! Jeeez, get in control of your emotions folks.

[Scout 30]

I agree that attempting to personally "salvage" one of these vessels is foolish but I don't agree that purchasing one that has already been salvaged only profits the dentist in the US or makes one a "vulture". These are insured charter vessels so the dentist will already be made whole. Repairing these vessels will infuse money into the economy in the form of jobs & materials just like repairing the homes will. This is not a knock on charity which is certainly necessary in these times. I just think the knee jerk reaction to vilify the OP for asking the question is wrong.