Seller refuses haul out

[Mike OReilly]

I'm with the walk-away crowd. Assuming you (the buyer) are paying all costs of the haul out, I can't see a reasonable seller denying this very normal part of the selling process. Sucks if the seller has to take time off work to do this, but that's one of the costs of selling.

Who knows what the full story is here. Maybe the seller is fearful of discovering something. Maybe they aren't strongly motivated to sell. I'm sure it does cost the seller something in time and effort to get the boat ready to be hauled, but that's just part of the process of selling.

As for insurance, the brokers I've dealt with when buying always wanted an out-of-water survey done.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Just curious: have you put that insurance to the test yet, ie made a claim and had a good response? I would have some reservations about coverage from a company with such lax requirements. I have similar worries about firms that are willing to cover newbies with large boats and small experience. Sorta like how do they make a profit if they take on high risk clients with no vetting?

Perhaps it really does work, and other firms are just over cautious, but it does go against my instincts.

Jim

That coverage was with BoatUS which is now Geico I think. The coverage was put to the test about 6 weeks later when there were high winds with gusts to 60 which was about double the forecast. She was on an end tie which was the only thing I could get at the time and was getting pretty beat up. The amas were really gyrating up and down and would fling the fenders up in the air so they would not be protecting the hull. The dock also had the power cables attached to the side with these metal brackets that protruded out, a really poor design. She got scraped up a bit with one really bad scrape to the core. I made a claim and they sent out a surveyor from pretty far away. I received a $6000 check after that.
I don't have the boat anymore.

[floater88]

Offer him 5000 without haul out survey!

[smj]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

That coverage was with BoatUS which is now Geico I think. The coverage was put to the test about 6 weeks later when there were high winds with gusts to 60 which was about double the forecast. She was on an end tie which was the only thing I could get at the time and was getting pretty beat up. The amas were really gyrating up and down and would fling the fenders up in the air so they would not be protecting the hull. The dock also had the power cables attached to the side with these metal brackets that protruded out, a really poor design. She got scraped up a bit with one really bad scrape to the core. I made a claim and they sent out a surveyor from pretty far away. I received a $6000 check after that.
I don't have the boat anymore.

We were also given insurance on a cold-molded catamaran with no survey through Boat US/Geico. Really surprised me!

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by Pete435231

...........The seller agreed to my offer ~25k for 33’ motor yacht and contingencies except he is unwilling to allow a hual out. Question to forum members: why would someone refuse a hual out? Is this a common thing that happens during sale procesd? Is it likely there is damage underneath and he doesnt want a hual out because if its found and i walk away from sale he would have to disclose it to future parties - or is his excuse of not wanting to take the time to do a hual out on a 25k AS-IS boat legitimate?..........

Seller refusing a haulout is likely hiding below the water issues from loss of barrier coat, shaft, strut and propeller damage, collosion damage. I know becuase I saw all these on my last 2 boat purchases (a 46' newer sailboat and a 50' powerboat). You have been VERY REASONABLE to offer to pay for a captain and diver since the trip to the haulout yard is always paid by the Seller based on my experience is Los Angelse and San Francisco. Since the Seller is willing to drive the boat to a haulout yard (haulout cost on Buyer) I would accomodate his time constraint since the out of the water survey can/should be relatively short and tiem enought to inspect the hull, rudder, propeller, etc. condition and hull and rudder water moisture.

[Russ]

Also if the owner did the " underwater survey'" on his own boat how reliable could it be. It smells.

[dadster3]

Walk away. If he is unwilling to haul the boat--which in most cases is paid for by the buyer--I am suspicious that there is something he doesn't want you to know. To say that he is unwilling to spend 8 hours to make $25K is nonsense. The haul out and survey for my boat took about 2 hrs, one to haul and pressure wash it and another hour for the surveyor to inspect the hull, keel, rudder and prop. There are plenty of boats and now that you know what you want, your search just became a lot easier. Walk away.

[rabbi]

I have purchased much more expensive boats than that without a professional survey - but I'd never buy a boat without a haulout.
If a seller refuses the haulout for whatever reason it's an immediate huge STOP sign. I don't even remotely care what reasons the seller lists.
Time to run

[Scorpius]

Sounds simple to me: "My offer is conditional on a satisfactory report from an out-of-water survey - or I walk".

And as someone suggested, put the money in a lawyer's trust to indicate you are serious.

Make sure the survey report can be used for insurance purposes too. You don't want to be doing this twice!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

He knows a haulout will reveal something (or some things) that you will use to negotiate the price down. Maybe you don't survey a $5000 boat but a $25,000 boat? I would.

Me too.


Buy a boat without seeing what's under the waterline? It's a cat in a bag. I would politely but firmly insist that one way or another, you get sight of what's down there.


OR -- how about this. Give the purchase price into escrow with a lawyer or trusted third party. THEN haul it out yourself, with the understanding that you can undo the deal if you don't like what you see.

[rbrentp]

Last year I sold a cat, 8 hours round trip to haul for survey. did it twice two months apart. Both times the bottom passed with flying colors. BTW, one surveyor said boat was worth 35k the second said 55k. Both fell through because their financing fell apart. Two months later another buyer and same routine. I said no to haul out. Two surveys and haul outs in six months. They did an in water inspection and bought the boat.


Selling a boat you love is like losing a family member. If the guy refuses a diver inspection...that is a different story.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Pete435231

Hi All,

I’ve been intetested in purchasing a boat for some time now and have done alot of research on which ones I want and will best fit my needs.

I thought i finally found the perfect boat not too far away from me in CA. The boat is really clean and looks well taken care of (pictures and walk around) and is the very model I wanted.

The seller agreed to my offer ~25k for 33’ motor yacht and contingencies except he is unwilling to allow a hual out. I offered to hire an insured captain if the listing broker was inable to take it to place to haul it out but seller says he wants to be the only one driving the boat but he doesnt want to take 8 hours of his day to do it - although he has offered to do a sea trial with me.

I asked when was last time a hual out survey was done on the boat and listing broker said that when seller originally purchased the boat a few years ago he did inspection himself underwater (as a diver) but didnt haul it out. So I offered to hire a diver but havent heard back.

I have a feeling i shouldnt just walk away from this boat I should run but its the exact boat im looking for and looks really clean and well taken care of.

Question to forum members: why would someone refuse a hual out? Is this a common thing that happens during sale procesd? Is it likely there is damage underneath and he doesnt want a hual out because if its found and i walk away from sale he would have to disclose it to future parties - or is his excuse of not wanting to take the time to do a hual out on a 25k AS-IS boat legitimate?

Look forward to feedback.

Pete in Los Angeles

Hauls out are expensive, offer to pay for the haul out yourself.
It's going to be your boat if you buy it.
You don't need a survey, that can be arranged later if you like what you see, up in the slings.
It would be silly for the owner to haul every time someone wants to purchase.
Surveys can uncover stuff to talk about.
And are expensive.
OFFER TO PAY THE COSTS yourself, your the one that wants to know as you should, or split the cost.
If then they say no, WALK.
You can keep the survey if you walk, or offer to sell the report to him.
Call it a pre-purchase.
SV Cloud Duster

[PuttingDoctor]

I would run!
That said if you want the boat make an offer with deposit via the broker not the owner.
Insist that it be delivered to the yard after the sea trial with surveyor onboard. Once out of the water have the owner carried home via car. If it gets satisfactory remarks from the surveyor the deal is done.
If you are hauling out and all is satisfactory you should use the opportunity to do bottom paint at minimum. Why pay twice?

[SV.StellaMaris]

The seller is willing to drive 8 hours to do a sea trial, but will not allow a haul out? They are often done on the same day, at the buyer’s expense. So, travel hardly seems the issue. Seems to me there’s something else. Either he doesn’t want you to see below the waterline or at best he’s phobic about hauling his boat out.

You can’t do an adequate inspection with a diver. Even if a diver can change the zincs, you can’t service the thru-hulls or paint the bottom. If he’s never hauled the boat out to inspect it, I’d be concerned he has also not maintained it well enough. But I’m from New England where we usually see the underside yearly and maintain accordingly.

How long has the boat been on the market? That may provide some clue as to the seller’s state of mind. There are a lot of beautiful boats out there. Few of them are so unique that they’re worth purchasing without a full inspection - at least at that price. And as dadster3 noted, the seller gets a free haul out and bottom cleaning. Something‘s not right.

[Bargain Bill]

I suspect he has no insurance, which is required by any marina doing a haul-out.
Put on your track shoes and RUN AWAY.