Sequence of Purchase

[porschetrek]

The brokerage where our money will be wired has the payoff amount of the loan, and will wire the funds directly to the bank. Broker will send the PO the remainder minus their commission and costs

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by porschetrek

The brokerage where our money will be wired has the payoff amount of the loan, and will wire the funds directly to the bank. Broker will send the PO the remainder minus their commission and costs

While that may be your expectation, is any of that in writing?


If not, I hope you 'feel lucky'

[Bycrick]

If you can trust the broker with the money. The broker/dealer that I bought my first boat from wandered off later with about $600k of customer money. Look at the number of lawyers in deep crap for fiddling the client's escrow accounts. That’s why real escrow services are bonded. Personally, the chances of my giving a broker six-figures of my money against an oral promise to do something are precisely zero. But I’m a paranoid old man.

[Bycrick]

Hmmmm. SVIllusion appears to not have any either.

[flee27]

I agree with the internet forum comment.

Saying that it might be the only safe option is to go with the current owner to the bank that holds the title (assuming a brick and mortar bank) and doing the transaction at the bank. This way you can make sure the money gets to the right people and you get your documentation.

This is were some kind of bonded buying agent would be beneficial. Somebody obligated to the deal and not one or the other individuals.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

But I’m a paranoid old man.

That is a euphemism for wise, cautious experience

[MicHughV]

" a fool and his money, are soon parted"....hmmmm....wonder if this wise saying originated in the yachting world....????

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

" a fool and his money, are soon parted"....hmmmm....wonder if this wise saying originated in the yachting world....????

Only if the “fool” comes here asking advice only to then ignore it

[porschetrek]

Well, as a Postscript, based in no small part to the sage advice I received on the board, I decided to stick to my guns and insist on full lien release and title prior to payment on closing (scheduled for Friday). The selling broker insisted otherwise, so I pulled the plug on the whole deal. He just wrote back a scathing e-mail saying in four years of selling boats they've never had a deal fall through on such a stupid reason, they could have sold the boat many times over in such a hot market, he wish he'd never showed me the boat, blah, blah. For my part, I wasted 3 months and $2,500 on a survey and marina fees, and passed on a boat I really liked, but at least I didn't get burned. Oh, well, don't fall in love with a boat, there are plenty more out there. Oh, and my wife thinks they may come back hat-in-hand and capitulate!

[Bycrick]

When I had to get a Satisfaction of Lien form, years ago, it took almost a month. The branch had no paperwork, it’s all in some central office at the other end of the state. I can’t imagine that it will be much faster in the current environment.

So, you go with the owner to the bank. If you’re lucky, they can find out what the current payoff value is. Maybe. If they can, and they couldn’t the last time I wanted to pay off a house mortgage early, you then give them a bunch of money, and they give you a receipt for the money. But that receipt proves nothing to the state or the CG. So, you can’t transfer the boat to your name without the form. If there are any problems, YOU get to deal with them.

Believe me, you don’t want to have to do it. Don’t trust the broker. Yours or theirs. Most documentation services have an escrow company that they work with. If anything goes wrong, they know how to fix it. You’ll have to learn, quickly and under pressure.

On my last deal, I did it myself. PO owned the boat with no lien. I had a cashiers check for the agreed amount. I had downloaded the necessary CG forms. It was easy.

If I were in your position, I’d get somebody who knows what they’re doing and is working for you. That leaves out the brokers. Find a good documentation service. Ask the brokers for a name. Call them up and see what they say. 20 years ago, they wanted $300-500 for a relatively simple deal. You can lose more than that it a heartbeat if you miss something.

[Bycrick]

I suspect that you might have been lucky, even after losing the various up-front money. I suspect you learned some things.

The broker is just annoyed that the sale fell throug, so he wants to blame you. If he’d done his job, there wouldn’t have been all of these last-minute questions.

I know of very few people that would buy or sell a house without lawyers, title companies, escrow companies, etc. in the deal to make sure it’s done right. Why should a boat purchase be any different?

Good luck on the next deal.

[Bycrick]

For the next time, if it’s a documented vessel, go to the CG documentation web site and request an Abstract of Title. Used to cost $25. It gives you the owner history of the boat and ALL the liens that have ever been filed against the boat, not just the boat mortgage. Then check with the state where the boat is located to see if they’ve got any liens. State mechanics liens are separate from the CG liens.

Remember that when you buy a boat, you buy all the liens too. The PO doesn’t have to disclose them. In some states, he might not even know about them. But they’ll cloud the title.

The general rule is that the PO has to clear up all the paperwork. But YOU need to know what to ask him for.

[MicHughV]

consider the $2,500 as your " learning fee".....no broker worth his salt would read you the riot act if you walked away from a deal....he was likely pissed at losing his commission...the broker is not buying the boat....you are...it's not his money on the line....it's yours.....I'd have some choice words for that broker, but don't waste your time..

yes, there is a high likelihood, he may come groveling back...the powerboat market may be hot, but the sailboat market not so much....a broker doesn't earn any money, unless he sells a boat....no sale....no money for him....

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by porschetrek

He just wrote back a scathing e-mail saying in four years of selling boats they've never had a deal fall through on such a stupid reason,...!

Expecting a title free of any liens isn’t “stupid”. Any broker who says that is either a liar or a fraud, or both. Would you share his name and the brokerage company name with us?

[dhenline]

I am unsure why this is even a pressing question. if the boat has any value, then you should be running this through a title company and escrow. Just like a house and just like how planes are bought and sold. Yes it may cost a few hundred dollars but total peace of mind