Should I Use a Broker?

[Sailormann]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeenThereAteIt
Hi Drifter33:

The really great boats for sale never seem to reach the brokers.
Great boats sell by word of mouth in private sales. So consider
just telling people around the marina your looking to purchase
whatever type of boat. Hand out your boat / buisness card to all
people you speak to. Lots of oppertunities you never hear about
any other way will come to you.

Respectfully,
Paul

I could not agree more.

I would not use a broker, nor would I ever use a surveyor that was recommended by one.

+1 on the foregoing.

I have not had great experiences with brokers and am definitely of the opinion that the great boats go long before the broker gets called. I think the best thing to do is to place notices on the bulletin boards of your local clubs and marinas. Also, if you have identified the class of boat you want to buy, try logging on to the class association website and letting people know what you are looking for. Some boats aren't really for sale, but if the owner hears that someone wants to buy, they'll consider selling.

Good Luck !

[Drifter33]

Originally Posted by captmick39

They MAY find You a boat.
YOU may find You a boat.
A "friend" may find You a boat.

This is exactly the reason that I am thinking of using a broker. It will become another tool to find a boat that fits my needs. My original budget was $100,000. I decided to lower my budget(and my expectations) in order to facilitate a quicker departure. I know it will be tough to find a great boat in my new price range, but maybe I can find a good boat. With the broker, I can concentrate on the private market while he looks in the brokerage/dealer market.

[Kefaa]

In another thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ong-28808.html) I was somewhat lamenting the time it was taking to find a boat. Rather, than repeat it here, my broker experience is found from a posting there earlier today.
The short version:
Do you need one? Probably not.
Do they help with the search? Possibly, if you cannot get to a location or it all the marinas yourself (and you cannot). The best they offered was boats they knew had serious issues, that looked good on the web sites. (wet decks, etc.)
When can they help? The transfer. If you or the owner have never done it before, the transfer of ownership can be an issue. Especially if there are liens on the boat or the owner of record is different than who you deal with (deceased individual, parent, etc.). Legal stuff.

[captmick39]

Originally Posted by Kefaa

In another thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ong-28808.html) I was somewhat lamenting the time it was taking to find a boat. Rather, than repeat it here, my broker experience is found from a posting there earlier today.
The short version:
Do you need one? Probably not.
Do they help with the search? Possibly, if you cannot get to a location or it all the marinas yourself (and you cannot). The best they offered was boats they knew had serious issues, that looked good on the web sites. (wet decks, etc.)
When can they help? The transfer. If you or the owner have never done it before, the transfer of ownership can be an issue. Especially if there are liens on the boat or the owner of record is different than who you deal with (deceased individual, parent, etc.). Legal stuff.

Another thought covering this last aspect of posting, IF a "deal" was struck between buyer & seller & all the "ducks" are pretty much in a row for the finances, Maritime ATTORNEY's are in the book pretty much everywhere You could Shop for a Boat here in the states. Their costs (along w/the fact that they HAVE E&O Insurance & some brokerages DON'T) are not "price based"...Usually $500.-$1500. depending on how complicated the mess is w/chain of title/ownership/liens/probate, etc. They also (like title companies/RealEstate Atty's) GUARANTEE their work to be accurate. In the right scenario, they're a viable option.

ASKING for a copy of the E&O Insurance dec.pages for the brokerage also separates wheat from chaff....fyi;
HTH

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by Drifter33

This is exactly the reason that I am thinking of using a broker. It will become another tool to find a boat that fits my needs. My original budget was $100,000. I decided to lower my budget(and my expectations) in order to facilitate a quicker departure. I know it will be tough to find a great boat in my new price range, but maybe I can find a good boat. With the broker, I can concentrate on the private market while he looks in the brokerage/dealer market.

You can find a smaller boat in great to very good condition, for less than money than a larger boat. Then you have money left over to upgrade the boat to make it even better.

[First Mate]

although it pains me to do so, as I'm so cheap Mr. Lincoln screams when I grab a penny, I would prefer to use a buyer's broker when dealing with a FSBO sale. We got jerked around by a FSBO owner we actually gave a deposit to. We had the boat surveyed and determined we didn't want it. It was not easy to get the deposit back, and we did not get it all back (which was ok - we just wanted him to go awayyyy). Plus the guy sent us two nasty letters by registered mail that scared the !@#$ out of us.

Use a buyer's broker with a FSBO. They charge 4% for that service. It's worth it.

[zeehag]

many brokers will not accept for selling many of the older boats despite the soundness of the boat--is alll having to do with their commission--they all get 10 percent or 3000 dollars whichever is highest, and i have found they will not push the boats they feel will not get them the income----they have no idea of the history or soundness of the bot--they use opinion -- their own--to force or not force the sale....look everywhere for the boat you WANT then go from there--there are good brokers and there are lazy ones--use your judgement and seek in all places--even ebay and craigs list--you WILL find a less spensive boat without a broker, as they have their income as first priority. brokers insurance does nothing to help a buyer or seller get a fair deal---is just overhead on the brokers cost list--surveyors are listed under SAMS surveyors and are easily found--i refuse to use brokers surveyors--i choose my own and use independent and certified ones. i like kjels christian on the west coast of usa--he is good, expensive and honest. i also donot use the surveyor unless i have already found the boat of my dreams---then is all good....many surveyors miss the important things that are critical in the repair of the boat for seaworthiness---if you can afford it--use second opinion, and bring along someone you KNOW knows boats inside and out....donot give deposit unless you are certain the boat is the one for you....is a buyers market, but,let the buyer beware...a lot of bs goes on that is considered norm--yet is just bs....goood luck.....

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by zeehag

many brokers will not accept for selling many of the older boats despite the soundness of the boat--is alll having to do with their commission--they all get 10 percent or 3000 dollars whichever is highest.....

I think you're wrong on this one. If the max was $3000, then there would be no point being in business. A $30,000 boat would give $3000 at 10%.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I think you're wrong on this one. If the max was $3000, then there would be no point being in business. A $30,000 boat would give $3000 at 10%.

you didnot read the sentence--i said the commission is 10 percent or 3000 dollars whichever is more.....re read then complain, please--also---if you do not like what i said--ask your broker--mine is charging me the standards and i want to sell the boat without having to lose 3000 on a 20,000 sale. a 1500 do--llar boat will give the broker 3000 dollars hewill raise the price to cover his commission.....use brains for dealing with brokers--always ask what is their commission--they will tell you up front--that is how i know this...

[Celestialsailor]

Ok....Excuuuuuuuse me....P.S. Try spell check will ya?

[zeehag]

.....LOL.....

[captmick39]

Well, it was a nice exchange to watch....

& have NEVER had a problem with a FSBO Seller trying to hold out on deposit refund (depending on how Your Offer/Contract was worded?), EVER.
If/when that time came we were in their front yard w/copy of the survey, LIVID over the "misrepresentation" to wit they respond..."don't be so upset with me, I didn't KNOW?!"....'nuff said, they refund & we walk away out the cost of survey only. If not, I'm filing a small claims action against them following morning in their county's clerk of court offices....AND a Lis Pendens against their HOME, AND making it for the cost of the survey added in, +Interest, +court costs. Prevailed 3 times so far over the years...lost "zero". A nice, tight purchase agreement speaks for itself. Their nastygram certified letters would just be more fodder for the JUDGE to contemplate regarding irrational behavior on their part. State Your case, short & sweet, the documents speak for themselves, and You leave(or shortly thereafter) w/Judgment, converts to lien against Either the Boat OR their Home...or BOTH, w/18% interest in this state. Judges don't take kindly to folks getting screwed, or trying to screw others here...thank goodness.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by zeehag

a 1500 do--llar boat will give the broker 3000 dollars hewill raise the price to cover his commission.

.....?

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by JiffyLube

.....?

is an example. if you are selling a boat and you want a certain amount for it, and you go thru a broker, that broker will cover his commission of 3000 or 10 percent of price boat sells for by raising the price of your boat to cover his commission. if you donot believe--go to a broker and ask.
my example was too low--they will not accept any thing that low to sell. is not cost effective for them. for example--if you wish to sell your boat for 20000 dollars, the broker will add to the price his 3000 or his 10 percent to that asking price. he will not accept below 3000 dollars as commission. 3000 is his minimum commission. obvviiously, 10percent of 20000 iw 2000 dollars--broker will take 3000d dollars for commission.

[First Mate]

Originally Posted by captmick39

Well, it was a nice exchange to watch....

& have NEVER had a problem with a FSBO Seller trying to hold out on deposit refund (depending on how Your Offer/Contract was worded?), EVER.
If/when that time came we were in their front yard w/copy of the survey, LIVID over the "misrepresentation" to wit they respond..."don't be so upset with me, I didn't KNOW?!"....'nuff said, they refund & we walk away out the cost of survey only. If not, I'm filing a small claims action against them following morning in their county's clerk of court offices....AND a Lis Pendens against their HOME, AND making it for the cost of the survey added in, +Interest, +court costs. Prevailed 3 times so far over the years...lost "zero". A nice, tight purchase agreement speaks for itself. Their nastygram certified letters would just be more fodder for the JUDGE to contemplate regarding irrational behavior on their part. State Your case, short & sweet, the documents speak for themselves, and You leave(or shortly thereafter) w/Judgment, converts to lien against Either the Boat OR their Home...or BOTH, w/18% interest in this state. Judges don't take kindly to folks getting screwed, or trying to screw others here...thank goodness.

yeah right. what if they just scare you by being crazy? what's the court going to do to help you if they just aren't normal people? It wasn't much money - just glad to get rid of the creep. What if he did something criminal just to get even with us? Personally, we don't have the nuts to fight with crazy people.

btw - he ended up selling the boat for less money than we tried to renegotiate, he had to fix the list of failed surveyed items, and he had to use a broker to sell it. we were so glad we didn't buy that boat from that horrible person. Saving a few grand to avoid broker's fees is not worth going through court, Lis Pendes, etc. for us. We have a life to live, not an axe to grind. If you have time and energy to take on a wackadoo in court to fuss over a few grand, more power to you.