Stay away from Pantaenius Yacht Insurance Why? read below..

[longjonsilver]

Insurance companies liars, thieves, and racketeers

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by longjonsilver

Insurance companies liars, thieves, and racketeers

Says the guy who associates himself with a pirate

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

Very, sorry about that, I copied a quote of a quote. The original poster was pantaeniusux

I forgive you..

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

I think there is a misconception out there that Marine Insurance is a maintenance plan, kind of like Health Insurance. Or at least like Auto Insurance, in which many companies will hold your hand, tell you where to get your car repaired, etc. The primary job of the Marine Insurance policy is to pay the bills. You, as the captain of the vessel, are presumed to have the skills necessary to get repair estimates, file a police report if required, arrange for a haul out, and do whatever is necessary to prevent further damage to the vessel. Yes, sometimes claims adjusters will step in and provide some advice in those matters, and they certainly want to make sure that your estimates are in-line with good practices and reasonable costs, but it is ultimately your responsibility. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but most claims are handled quickly, fairly, and efficiently, especially if the boat owner has read the section of the policy entitled [your] "Duties after an Occurrence"

Your point is valid, insurance is to make you financially whole, not to hand hold. The OP stated multiple issues where they feel the insurance company is not making them financial whole, instead using quotes and surveyors who are overlooking key issues to the repair. Always two sides to a story.

[Delfin]

Is it correct that Pantaenius underwrites its own policies? I ask because the niggling over costs seems like something that would be less likely to occur when a broker is involved whose own reputation is also at stake in loss situations. Our experience with insurance claims is that I am generally surprised at how good the companies are in fairly settling claims, but perhaps I leave a charmed life. Our boat is insured with Traveler's and it is hard to see why they would waste their time insisting on unlicensed surveyors, repairmen, etc.

[atlroofman]

Just a comment. I have had the same insurance agent for 31 years on my business. He tells me he started out looking for the best cost insurance to supply to his customers. Now he spends all of his time reading the legalese of policies to make sure they cover the instances we buy the insurance to cover. Seems like since the 2008 econimic down turn where people dropped policies left and right and the real estate that so many insurance companies were invested in went down at the same time they have changed there model to just cover the claims they cannot despute. all others are automatically turned down.

[No Boat]

Hi Delfin totally agree, I cant understand why an insurance company would leave themselves exposed by engaging the services of an unlicensed surveyor or trades to save themselves money and put lives at risk. Maybe they don't mind attending a coronial inquest if when things go horribly wrong at sea.



Below is the email reply from the insurance company to the licensed surveyor who had rearranged his schedule so he could attend our boat when they balked at a fee small of $1600.



This was a vessel in transit fully insured for $480,000 that was stranded 3 hours from Singapore with 4000 nautical miles to go before it reached its home port. We had totally refitted and upgraded new nav and safety system, Still had the boxes for it all 14 days old blown up in smoke!!!



This was a beautiful boat that anyone would be proud to own not an unmaintained boat the I was expecting the insurance company to pick up the slack on. We now find the vessel has been sitting in the water for 18 months with lightning exit holes in the hull. Would you be happy??



Hi John,

In have run this past the underwriters and unfortunately they will not be able to agree to the below costs.

Thank you for your help so far.


my reply to insurance company when I found out the new guy they were appointing was not licensed



"Thankyou for your email re the surveyor David. To confirm is David a licensed surveyor with experience in lightning strikes."



The insurance company reply back to me



"The qualifications of the chosen surveyor are up to the underwriters by whom he has been chosen."


This was their attitude back in November 2017 and it has continued all the way through. This boat returned to Australia at considerable risk to the safety of the vessel and Crew due to failure by insurance company to properly assess the full extent of the damage.


When we finally got back to Australia March 2018 their answer to us was well the boat has just traveled 4000 nautical miles so it is obviously fine.



Make of it what you want our story is a nightmare that has consumed us for 18 months. I was just supporting the other poor guy who seems to be getting a pretty rough run and suggesting people to be very careful no matter who they are dealing with when they put their life savings and lives in the hands of someone else.



A note to all that it is quite funny a yacht was hit the other day in our marina, Friday to be exact, the mast is getting pulled tomorrow. I wonder if this boat will end up parked next to us on the hardstand. At least he did not have to wait 12 months for his rig to be pulled.



I had to pay for the rigger to go up our mast for first inspection even though you could see a visible scorch mark 2 meters from the top and we had a hole in our back stay tensioner and melted blocks at the base of the mast.. Below is a conversation re mast blocks between Lewmar. This was relayed to the insurance company and they still insisted we did not get hit




Lewmar rep to Lewmar US

"I have attached some photos of 90mm single synchro blocks that have failed.
They are Halyard turn blocks from a 54ft Hanse yacht (approx. 7-8 yrs old) . I gather that all the deck collar blocks have similar damage.
It appears the cheeks have melted anywhere that the cheek touches metal (side straps axle pins etc) and I can only assume the vessel has been struck by lightning. Can you please give me your thoughts on the damage and maybe if you have seen anything similar."


Reply
"


What a find! I think you’re probably right about the lightning, unless Australia got really hot…

I think it’s a replacement job for these.

All the best,"


I am fully aware that I cannot slander anyone so I am only posting word for word facts.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by longjonsilver

Insurance companies liars, thieves, and racketeers

So tell us what you do/did for a living so we can slander your profession! Seriously, if insurance companies didn't pay claims and honor their contracts, then no one would buy their products and they'd all go out of business. Sure, there is the occasional dispute, often because of a language barrier, or because the consumer misunderstood or didn't read the policy language and so poorly managed the claim (that's what a good agent is for). And yes, there are even a few bad apples out there. We always hear about the disputes, as it's human nature to post about complaints and but not to post compliments on good service received. Can you name any industry that has a 100% perfect track record with zero complaints from anyone? It's just not right to post such general condemnations of an entire industry.

[drcot3]

Just a good story my boat was covered by insure4boats in the eastern Spanish Mediterranean and I had a partial flooding caused by a back siphon into the boat from a shower outlet caused by passing boats at speed causing a big wash.

They were very good and paid out the claim and I can only say good things about this UK based company and my boat is UK registered.

I could have bought a new boat on the insurance I have paid over the years and never claimed before this partial flooding.

Good sailing and health to all. Thinking of buying a boat in Florida so medical insurance a big factor to us UK citizens.

[longjonsilver]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

So tell us what you do/did for a living so we can slander your profession! Seriously, if insurance companies didn't pay claims and honor their contracts, then no one would buy their products and they'd all go out of business. Sure, there is the occasional dispute, often because of a language barrier, or because the consumer misunderstood or didn't read the policy language and so poorly managed the claim (that's what a good agent is for). And yes, there are even a few bad apples out there. We always hear about the disputes, as it's human nature to post about complaints and but not to post compliments on good service received. Can you name any industry that has a 100% perfect track record with zero complaints from anyone? It's just not right to post such general condemnations of an entire industry.

Why don't you respond to this comment?

Originally Posted by atlroofman

Just a comment. I have had the same insurance agent for 31 years on my business. He tells me he started out looking for the best cost insurance to supply to his customers. Now he spends all of his time reading the legalese of policies to make sure they cover the instances we buy the insurance to cover. Seems like since the 2008 econimic down turn where people dropped policies left and right and the real estate that so many insurance companies were invested in went down at the same time they have changed there model to just cover the claims they cannot despute. all others are automatically turned down.

Emphasis mine

[Delfin]

Tarring the entire insurance industry for one company's failures seems a bit over the top, and doesn't align with my, or others, experience. Case in point - my son's house caught on fire from a fault in the Bosch dishwasher (note - if you have a Bosch dishwasher, you should Google the topic of fires). The insurance company was Kemper. A small part of the asphalt roof was damaged, requiring replacement of the shingles. However, Kemper, without asking, said the entire roof needed to be replaced since they couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be a color difference between the repaired section and the older parts of the roof. They also paid to have the entire home gutted of wallboard and reinsulated because they said they couldn't guarantee that you wouldn't be able to detect a smoky smell, which gets trapped in the insulation. Bottom line, they provided more than my son asked for in terms of responsiveness and willingness to make him whole. In fact, he ended up with a significantly better home than he started with.

Pantaenius may be turd to work with in some places, but that tells me nothing about insurers in general.

[Bycrick]

In the last 20 years, I’ve had two lightning strikes on my boat (different places, years apart) and helped several other boaters fix their lightning strikes. All were covered by different insurance companies. In every case, the insurance companies were cooperative, easy to deal with and paid in full promptly.

I think that many people are unrealistic about what the insurance company is SUPPOSED to do. My policy doesn’t say that they will repair my boat, or that they will help me repair my boat, or that they will pay to repair my boat. It does say that they will “REIMBURSE me for covered losses.” That means I determine what the repairs are, who does them, how they’re done and I pay for them. I’d better know what the covered losses are, because that’s the only point of argument. And, while you can argue with them during the repair process whether this-or-that is going to be covered, you’re going to usually be out-of-pocket for any work done until the claim is settled.

[Exile]

I don't want to minimize the sincerity or frustration of those who have reported bad experiences. As others have pointed out, however, it is important not to cast too wide a net and condemn the entire industry.

For starters, my understanding is that, unlike other types of insurance, recreational marine insurance -- at least in the U.S. -- is an unregulated industry. This means every policy can be different and often is, so I don't think it's accurate to say that certain types of claims are "automatically" denied. Listed exclusions can also be difficult to interpret, for example nuances that often arise when items defined as "latent defects" are treated differently from those deemed "design defects." Then there's the variable of the different skill levels, credentials, and experience of the surveyor, with many boat owners not realizing that they are free to hire their own surveyor if the one assigned by the insurance co. is unsatisfactory. Another variable is the competence of what is often called the "adjustor," namely the person employed by the insurance co. assigned to handle the administration of the claim, i.e. the management of the paperwork & monies associated with the repair process, etc. Much of the latter depends on the competence & diligence of the boat owner as well as the yard.

Finally, it's definitely a two-way street. More than once I have heard boat owners boasting about all sorts of unrelated items they managed to get repaired after submitting a claim for hurricane damage. There is, and should be, a clear distinction between putting a boat back in the condition it was in prior to the damage, and what is commonly referred to as "betterment." And while the goal is to make the boat owner "whole" again, the reality is if you suffer sufficient damage to warrant filing a valid claim, it's not exactly good news and shouldn't be. Although I have had to file one claim in my 12 years of boat ownership, my general goal is to never miss a premium payment and to avoid having to file claims. Depending on the value of your boat and your exposure, insurance is a necessity that allows us to do what we love to do without having to worry about getting wiped out financially. Like any product or service, there are good & bad reviews, but hopefully the former outweighs the latter. It has in my case, at least thus far.

[drcot3]

Thats the problem when you decide what repairs are done, who pays or not later, usually betterment is the real problem, ie; reduction of the claim because you have new rather than your older furnishings/engine parts/whatever. I was lucky as loss adjusters were a big help and a understanding insurance company. then its problem getting insurance if the claim was nearly the cost of the whole boat value. Good luck with your claim.

[MartinR]

Originally Posted by TabbyCat

I You, as the captain of the vessel, are presumed to have the skills necessary to get repair estimates, file a police report if required, arrange for a haul out, and do whatever is necessary to prevent further damage to the vessel. Yes, sometimes claims adjusters will step in and provide some advice in those matters, and they certainly want to make sure that your estimates are in-line with good practices and reasonable costs, but it is ultimately your responsibility.

SIC

I would think the first thing the insurance company wants is a quote, nothing strange in that. If you can not provide a quote, why should they act? Of course, many times, they arrange for this by themselves, if they have a known repairer in the vicinity. But this is in order to keep their costs down and to be in control of the process.