Stay away from Pantaenius Yacht Insurance Why? read below..

[No Boat]

Yes Australia

[bstreep]

I'm going to jump in BRIEFLY. I say briefly, because we are in month 19 of our claim/saga, and it's still not resolved. But, unlike the OP, I'm not mentioning the name (It is not Pantaenius), because I'm not at liberty to share all of the details. When I can, I will. Until you live thru a big claim you have NO IDEA what it is like. It's... a horrible experience.

[Singularity]

I'm in month 8 of the only claim that I've ever filed in my life (RV, not boat) with one of the most prominent (if not most prominent) RV insurers in the US. It's an abject sh!tshow. I otherwise own many vehicles (including in a business) and have always held quality policies. And for what.

All I can say is that if you by default side with Goliath and the attorneys...then there's a small chance that you are in for a rude awakening someday, followed by months/years of misery. This isn't 1985 or whenever the last period in history existed that there wasn't such regulatory capture.

I swear that the insurance companies, et al, have figured out the metric "how often we (the insurance company) have to pay out claims in a glorious fashion so that the supermajority of people who have never filed a claim will hear the glory stories and side with [Goliath]."

[mat jam]

My experience with the insurer in question was strange.

They had the cheapest insurance and from what I heard a good reputation. When I got hit by a charter boat they told me I was on my own since it was the other boat at fault and to contact them. When I asked what the point of having insurance was if they were not going to help, they begrudgingly helped by giving me the contact info.
After a long drawn out claim with a charter company and their insurance broker and surveyor, of which some shady **** happened, the following year when I went to renew my insurance I was told they could no longer insure my boat because of the country flag. I contacted headquarters in Germany which verified the info that I could not renew my insurance. So I insured through a company where my boat is registered. Come time to renew my previous insurance someone from the previous insurance office contacts me asking me to renew. I explain to her that her boss told me it was no longer possible. After a delay, she tells me oh that will be from next year. Well that is not what headquarters said. Who to believe?

[letsgetsailing3]

Seems simple enough.


If they pay what you think the incident was worth, you're happy. Otherwise, you're not.


You won't know until you get a settlement.

[pantaeniusux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Pantaenius UK has been excellent with me.. surveyor was on the boat 48hrs after a lightning strike in Mallorca 1997.. settled full replacement costs of damaged equipment in short order.
My experience of them has been above and beyond what one would normally expect from an insurer.. have not ever felt the need to go elsewhere.
Cannot fault them.

I had a completely different experience with Pantaenius.
Despite their Managing Director bragging about their fast response and extensive network of repairers blah blah...

Pantaenius left us stranded in a river with a dented boat and a hole in our keel. Their only response was "get a quote".


They failed to assist us in lifting the boat, a task made more difficult because the local marina facilities were out of action being refurbished.


It was virtually impossible to get a quote as the nearest reputable repairer was behind in govt contracts and did not have capacity. The nearest shipyard was going through a 12 month long total refurbishment and had no boat lifter.
Pantaenius left us to rot repeatedly telling us to get a quote.
Eventually we managed to get the only marina for 100 miles to lift the boat after we started taking water through the keel. At first they refused because they said our boat was too big for their lift. It took several attempts to lift the boat and it only cleared the dock by 1cm. Subsequently we confirmed the keel had been damaged and there was extensive corrosion occurring.



Pantaenius eventually showed up more than 4 months after the boat had been lifted, leaving us to pay the lift and marina hardstand fees. this was 16 months after we had reported the damage (storm) and requested their assistance.

They then proceeded to get quotes from backyard bob type welders 700km from the boat and specified the dodgy repairer "ASSUME NO CORROSION".


Our 15m yacht is aluminium with a lead ballasted keel. It is impossible for there to be no corrosion once saltwater has entered the keel and caused the lead and aluminium to react.


To add insult to injury Pantaenius wanted to 'bog up' the dents which were way beyond bogging depth and the West epoxy people stated it was unsuitable to use their product in this situation. Never mind Pantaenius was happy for their 'repairer' to use the cheap bog.

I'll give a full report with photos so you can judge for yourself. The funniest parts are where their hired 'expert' says corrosion would not occur between the lead and aluminium.

More to come.
I would recommend switching insurers if you are with them. I believe it will lead to a better outcome.

[pantaeniusux]

I'll happily take questions and provide the correspondence and quotes from them.


Obviously you ask why didn't we sail to another facility?
Pantaenius would not cover the boat if we sailed it on a 90 nm journey to another port with a hole in the keel.
Their only reponse for 16 months was "get a quote"


We got one from the local (25nm) reputable aluminium shipbuilder who said the keel needed to be replaced because the lead and aluminium had reacted and it was impossible to safely weld the keel. Pantaenius refused that one opting for backyard bobs 'no corrosion' quote from 700km away.

[Paul L]

Which Pantenius was this policy issued by?

I guess one important issue would be when did the corrosion start. The quote I have from Pantenius US explicitly excludes corrosion.

a kept on board the insured vessel(s).
B4(d): WEAR AND TEAR AND INHERENT VICE
Damage due to wear and tear or inherent vice, including,
but not limited to, deterioration, corrosion, oxidation,
electrolysis, mold, mildew, fatigue, delamination, osmosis,
or blistering, however caused, and any and all resulting
damages or losses to any machinery or that are excluded
under this Section or any other term or condition of this
policy. If the resulting damages and losses are not
excluded per the foregoing, this exclusion is limited to the
affected part.

[No Boat]

Sounds like same deal as us, they engaged the services of their electrician to dispute our professional unbiased $140,000 assessment. One of the many comments was that their electrician stated that the reason the $20,000 plus generator was giving false warnings on control pad and shutting down was due to the oil being dirty, apart from the generator being serviced a few hours before oil could not cause the messages. They cut and pasted the original damage report by an unlicensed surveyor which hid noted damage to the inverter from us and their electrician stated the hole blown in the back stay tensioner rod was not lightning related. and the list goes on. now on hardstand again 16 months later. No Boat No life.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by pantaeniusux

I had a completely different experience with Pantaenius.
Despite their Managing Director bragging about their fast response and extensive network of repairers blah blah...

Pantaenius left us stranded in a river with a dented boat and a hole in our keel. Their only response was "get a quote".


They failed to assist us in lifting the boat, a task made more difficult because the local marina facilities were out of action being refurbished.


It was virtually impossible to get a quote as the nearest reputable repairer was behind in govt contracts and did not have capacity. The nearest shipyard was going through a 12 month long total refurbishment and had no boat lifter.
Pantaenius left us to rot repeatedly telling us to get a quote.
Eventually we managed to get the only marina for 100 miles to lift the boat after we started taking water through the keel.

What did you expect them to do " magic" you to another part of the world?

Your boat was obviously still floating and drivable so think of it like a car that has been damaged yet still drivable.
In that case it would be up to you to drive your car somewhere and get a quote, why is this any different?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by pantaeniusux

I had a completely different experience with Pantaenius.
Despite their Managing Director bragging about their fast response and extensive network of repairers blah blah...

Pantaenius left us stranded in a river with a dented boat and a hole in our keel. Their only response was "get a quote".


They failed to assist us in lifting the boat, a task made more difficult because the local marina facilities were out of action being refurbished.


It was virtually impossible to get a quote as the nearest reputable repairer was behind in govt contracts and did not have capacity. The nearest shipyard was going through a 12 month long total refurbishment and had no boat lifter.
Pantaenius left us to rot repeatedly telling us to get a quote.
Eventually we managed to get the only marina for 100 miles to lift the boat after we started taking water through the keel. At first they refused because they said our boat was too big for their lift. It took several attempts to lift the boat and it only cleared the dock by 1cm. Subsequently we confirmed the keel had been damaged and there was extensive corrosion occurring.



Pantaenius eventually showed up more than 4 months after the boat had been lifted, leaving us to pay the lift and marina hardstand fees. this was 16 months after we had reported the damage (storm) and requested their assistance.

They then proceeded to get quotes from backyard bob type welders 700km from the boat and specified the dodgy repairer "ASSUME NO CORROSION".


Our 15m yacht is aluminium with a lead ballasted keel. It is impossible for there to be no corrosion once saltwater has entered the keel and caused the lead and aluminium to react.


To add insult to injury Pantaenius wanted to 'bog up' the dents which were way beyond bogging depth and the West epoxy people stated it was unsuitable to use their product in this situation. Never mind Pantaenius was happy for their 'repairer' to use the cheap bog.

I'll give a full report with photos so you can judge for yourself. The funniest parts are where their hired 'expert' says corrosion would not occur between the lead and aluminium.

More to come.
I would recommend switching insurers if you are with them. I believe it will lead to a better outcome.

Why should I leave someone who has treated me fairly on every occasion..
You must have been way out in the boondocks.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Pantaenius left us stranded in a river with a dented boat and a hole in our keel. Their only response was "get a quote".
...They failed to assist us in lifting the boat,.

I think there is a misconception out there that Marine Insurance is a maintenance plan, kind of like Health Insurance. Or at least like Auto Insurance, in which many companies will hold your hand, tell you where to get your car repaired, etc. The primary job of the Marine Insurance policy is to pay the bills. You, as the captain of the vessel, are presumed to have the skills necessary to get repair estimates, file a police report if required, arrange for a haul out, and do whatever is necessary to prevent further damage to the vessel. Yes, sometimes claims adjusters will step in and provide some advice in those matters, and they certainly want to make sure that your estimates are in-line with good practices and reasonable costs, but it is ultimately your responsibility. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but most claims are handled quickly, fairly, and efficiently, especially if the boat owner has read the section of the policy entitled [your] "Duties after an Occurrence"

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Pantaenius left us stranded in a river with a dented boat and a hole in our keel. Their only response was "get a quote".
...They failed to assist us in lifting the boat,.



The above was NOT written by me..
I have zero gripes with Pantaenius so please get your quotes right..

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Why should I leave someone who has treated me fairly on every occasion..

I was thinking the same. If I were to move from Pantaenius to another broker will they be any better, doubtful, Pantaenius have a really good reputation in the UK so I will stay with them.

Pete

[TabbyCat]

Very, sorry about that, I copied a quote of a quote. The original poster was pantaeniusux