Unethical Practice by my Boat Yard?

[new-to-sailing]

I am getting ready to launch my Catalina 27 in the coming days, the yard put the boat in the water on Tuesday (I was not there). They called me and said there was a small amount of water coming in through a transducer and said it would just take an hour or two at a labor rate of $140 to fix it. I agreed and today I get the bill for the work $225 for the repair and then $324 on top of that for a re haul out and launch. On the phone they didn’t mention this additional cost and the boat was still on the slings when they called me, I assumed it would just be the labor cost.

Am I out of line to push back on these charges? Feels fair to me given what I was told on the phone?

[jordanbigel]

This is the way.

a) they said they put the boat in the water
b) they said it was leaking and asked your approval to fix it
c) how did you think they would fix it without pulling it again???

Just move on.

PS. Sorry to come off blunt, but really, this is all completely normal. They don't splash boats and pull them again for free. Ever.

[Statistical]

Even if they didn't do the repair you were going to pay the haulout and relaunch unless your decision would have been "yes please leave my leaking boat in the water". Right?

So if you had said "haul it out" I will figure it out when I get there then you would have owed a haulout fee and eventually a fee to launch it again.

[new-to-sailing]

I understand yes the haul out probably would have needed to happen, is there not some obligation on them to give me a price? From a purely legal perspective (have 0 intention of going down this road and will probably just pay) I’m not so sure that I owe them that $320 per my phone conversation.

I am surely naive when it comes to this and frustrated but I just don’t get why it’s as if the cost of something like this is kept under lock and key and not made available to customers. As it seems any boat work is done with a very hazy price point and poor documentation.

[sagablu]

From my limited point of view, I would be of course unhappy about paying more than I was told, but I would be thrilled that they were paying attention and noticed the leak. I would bet that most yards wouldn't have taken the time to take a look around.

[sailingunity]

While it's a little off-putting that they didn't disclose to you it would need to come back out, however it is probably implied. Except for maybe "it just needs tightening", more than likely it would have to come back out to fix the leak, perhaps by rebedding the sensor.

If you choose not to pay them the $320, they may choose never to do business with you again, which can be a problem depending on availability of marine service providers in your area.

Have you talked to the yard about the surprise charge?

[new-to-sailing]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

While it's a little off-putting that they didn't disclose to you it would need to come back out, however it is probably implied. Except for maybe "it just needs tightening", more than likely it would have to come back out to fix the leak, perhaps by rebedding the sensor.

If you choose not to pay them the $320, they may choose never to do business with you again, which can be a problem depending on availability of marine service providers in your area.

Have you talked to the yard about the surprise charge?

Haven’t talked to them yet, I’ll be at the yard tomorrow to make the cruise up to my harbor so planning to chat with them then . In fairness to them they may be understanding and remove it, probably a bit more upset than I should be but just wanted to see what others thought.

[SailingHarmonie]

I would NEVER EVER allow my boat to be launched if I was not there. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

If that is the biggest ethical lapse your boatyard ever has, you are doing really well, and you should just trust them.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by new-to-sailing

I understand yes the haul out probably would have needed to happen, is there not some obligation on them to give me a price? From a purely legal perspective (have 0 intention of going down this road and will probably just pay) I’m not so sure that I owe them that $320 per my phone conversation.

I am surely naive when it comes to this and frustrated but I just don’t get why it’s as if the cost of something like this is kept under lock and key and not made available to customers. As it seems any boat work is done with a very hazy price point and poor documentation.

I think no malice was intended. They should have said "2 hours or labor plus cost of haulout" but they likely assumed you would know they weren't going to try and fix an active leak in the water.

As far as boat shady goes this isn't even light grey. The cost other than haulout was below their estimate and they cared enough to notice the leak to begin with. When costs are higher than projected I usually ask is this extra cost unwarranted and would it have changed my decision if I knew in advance. If the answer to both is no then I roll with it.

If it bugs you enough I would just clalmly point out that they said nothing about having to haul it out and resplash it again. I would fully expect them to say "how did you think we were going to fix it?" or something to that effect.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

I would NEVER EVER allow my boat to be launched if I was not there. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

If that is the biggest ethical lapse your boatyard ever has, you are doing really well, and you should just trust them.

I generally agree, although a good yard will do like this one and make sure they have access to the boat to check for leaks before pulling the boat out of the slings.

[Shrew]

They told you it was leaking through a through hull and they asked if you wanted them to fix it.

1) IMHO, it seems blatantly obvious that they are going to need to haul the boat in order to fix that.

2) Hauling and launching boats is ALWAYS going to cost you money. The exception is if you're paying to be stored on land (e.g. winter storage in the north...........like Illinois) then the haul in Autumn and launch in Spring is built into the price of seasonal storage. Any other time getting hauled falls under either a 'short-haul' or a 'haul, block and store'. This will be based on time and will vary in price.

3) The fact that you didn't ask the price doesn't absolve you of your financial responsibility. Nor does the fact that they didn't divulge it forfeit their right to collect.

4) Whether you were there or not, you still would have had to haul it. In fact, good luck getting anyone else to haul you in April anywhere in the north, where the yards are full of boats that they're trying to launch. The last thing they need is a haul-out blocking things up. Anyone other yard would charge you at their 'Emergency Haul' rate, so be glad you got off this cheap.

This is boating, and what you describe is standard practice.

[Orion Jim]

My yard charges 600 bucks for a short haul, five minutes or a couple days, doesn’t matter. I think you made out very well.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

I would NEVER EVER allow my boat to be launched if I was not there. PERIOD. FULL STOP.

If that is the biggest ethical lapse your boatyard ever has, you are doing really well, and you should just trust them.

Many damages happen during launch or haul out. Lines or cables snag, or the lift slings can be placed wrong.
One time my boat was being hauled the sling was under the prop shaft. I was aboard and agreed with the yard that we were both partially responsible (split the cost of a new shaft). If you have a dripless shaft seal it needs to be burped, and they might not know that. Possible issues are endless, e.g the OPs leak. Everything needs to be checked, and I like to stay aboard for a while after launch and monitor for leaks and run the engines etc. to determine other possible issues.

[Fore and Aft]

New to sailing since I would pay the bill and be glad they don't give you an earful for upsetting their work schedule that day. I can remember when I was working at a boatyard in New Zealand and a sumlog was leaking on the boat we launched. It was a right drama as we had a big day planned on the Travelift and now we were being held up. The sumlog was out and sealed in record time and the yacht launched again.
I am not sure about American prices but here in Australia that seems a fair price to me.
Cheers

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by new-to-sailing

I am getting ready to launch my Catalina 27 in the coming days, the yard put the boat in the water on Tuesday (I was not there). They called me and said there was a small amount of water coming in through a transducer and said it would just take an hour or two at a labor rate of $140 to fix it. I agreed and today I get the bill for the work $225 for the repair and then $324 on top of that for a re haul out and launch. On the phone they didn’t mention this additional cost and the boat was still on the slings when they called me, I assumed it would just be the labor cost.

Am I out of line to push back on these charges? Feels fair to me given what I was told on the phone?

The charges are quite reasonable for what they did.


I agree that they should have mentioned the haulout charges, but marinas are not perfect. As a point of reference, I typically was unable to get any sort of estimate at all from the marina where I last kept my boat.


My advice is to choose your battles with the marina, sailmaker, etc., wisely.