US Citizen buying/keeping boat in Grenada do I need to do state registration?

[singlespeed]

I did not import the boat. Time limits that require state or local registration are not consistent between states, USVI and Puerto Rico.

Local police boat stopped me in our non-registered dinghy, once in Charlotte Amalie harbor, USVI the day after checking in at the ferry dock with U.S. Customs and Immigration. Claimed we had to have at least a state registration on our dinghy. We had no identification or documents with us on the dinghy as we were going to breakfast on another boat. They could not figure out what to do. They had two other dinghies tied alongside telling the occupants the thing. Told us all we needed to go to the police dock (quite a distance away), tie up and walk, taxi or bus to USVI government offices at the airport and register our dinghy to our local address, pay the necessary fees, get the sticker, temporary documentation and the official registration would be mailed to us at our local address. We told them that we did not have a local address, we did not legally have to register our dinghy in their territory, as we were not residents and had only been in their territory for less than 24 hours and that we intended to depart for Puerto Rico with-in two weeks. They let us all go with a warning that they were actively patrolling for unregistered boats a would cite anyone stopped a second time. Met up with our friends for breakfast, who said they had the same experience a few days before. VHF talk was that the police were drumming up revenue prior to budget year end, but no one bothered to comply with the obvious cash generation ploy. Stayed ten more days, saw the same officers on the same boat frequently from our non-registered dinghy and were not stopped again.

[sailcrazy]

Singlespeed....when did this happen? Recently? What month? There was a big presence/hassle in Brewer Bay (St Thomas) some months ago, and a big push on the 2-weeks max time in USVI new law-just wondering if your event was about that same time?

[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by MountainKing

I will be buying a boat currently registered in Canada, in Grenada. My plan is to use Grenada as a base and sail up and down the Caribbean chain each season, returning to Grenada for hurricane season. My plan was to register the boat with USCG.

I'm currently living in NV, but only for a few more months to sell stuff I don't need and make an orderly transition. I have no plans to bring the boat to the US. At the most, if I was in the Bahamas and wanted to do a major upgrade (like lithium batteries, inverters, etc.) I'd consider shipping them to Florida and hopping over to pick them up for a week, but not staying there for any significant amount of time.

Do I even need to register with a state at all? I'm not trying to avoid taxes. I just want to do this right and have my ducks in a row. I might continue to use NV as a state of residence for paperwork and taxes. I haven't figured out where I should do that yet. I'll do some contract work in the US a few months each year, like a traveling nurse, but won't actually have any permanent place of residence in the US.

Thanks,
MK

If I were a resident of Nevada, that is if Nevada were my 'domicile', (with Driver's License, voter registration, etc.) I would hang onto that whether or not you register the boat there.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by singlespeed

I did not import the boat. Time limits that require state or local registration are not consistent between states, USVI and Puerto Rico.

Local police boat stopped me in our non-registered dinghy, once in Charlotte Amalie harbor, USVI the day after checking in at the ferry dock with U.S. Customs and Immigration. Claimed we had to have at least a state registration on our dinghy. We had no identification or documents with us on the dinghy as we were going to breakfast on another boat. They could not figure out what to do. They had two other dinghies tied alongside telling the occupants the thing. Told us all we needed to go to the police dock (quite a distance away), tie up and walk, taxi or bus to USVI government offices at the airport and register our dinghy to our local address, pay the necessary fees, get the sticker, temporary documentation and the official registration would be mailed to us at our local address. We told them that we did not have a local address, we did not legally have to register our dinghy in their territory, as we were not residents and had only been in their territory for less than 24 hours and that we intended to depart for Puerto Rico with-in two weeks. They let us all go with a warning that they were actively patrolling for unregistered boats a would cite anyone stopped a second time. Met up with our friends for breakfast, who said they had the same experience a few days before. VHF talk was that the police were drumming up revenue prior to budget year end, but no one bothered to comply with the obvious cash generation ploy. Stayed ten more days, saw the same officers on the same boat frequently from our non-registered dinghy and were not stopped again.

Dingy registration will get you. You were in the wrong there, as your dingy is a completely separate boat from your sailboat. If you had separately CG documented your dingy and had paperwork showing the amount of time it had spent there you would have been fine. But since you hadn't you're no different than someone who was running around in a 25' power boat and when stopped with no registration claimed that they "just got there" and were exempt from registration. If anyone could do this, then the entire registration program would be utterly unenforceable.

In the US at least you've got to treat the dingy like it's own independent vessel. Just image your dingy is a 300' yacht, and then think about if your excuse would or should hold water. If not, then it's not going to work because they're both subject to the same registration laws. I know it isn't obvious because most of us naturally think of the dink as just an extension of the boat, but it's not.

[MountainKing]

Originally Posted by rmlarson1098

If I were a resident of Nevada, that is if Nevada were my 'domicile', (with Driver's License, voter registration, etc.) I would hang onto that whether or not you register the boat there.

That's the current plan. I'll probably still do contract work there, and I like it there...

[MountainKing]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Dingy registration will get you. You were in the wrong there, as your dingy is a completely separate boat from your sailboat. If you had separately CG documented your dingy and had paperwork showing the amount of time it had spent there you would have been fine. But since you hadn't you're no different than someone who was running around in a 25' power boat and when stopped with no registration claimed that they "just got there" and were exempt from registration. If anyone could do this, then the entire registration program would be utterly unenforceable.

In the US at least you've got to treat the dingy like it's own independent vessel. Just image your dingy is a 300' yacht, and then think about if your excuse would or should hold water. If not, then it's not going to work because they're both subject to the same registration laws. I know it isn't obvious because most of us naturally think of the dink as just an extension of the boat, but it's not.

Can you even register the dinghy with CG since it's under 5 tons?

[Sand crab]

I wanted to clear up the 2 aspects of USCG documentation which are the documentation process itself and then paying import duty which is seperate. A US citizen can document a boat but doesn't have to pay import duty unless it is brought to the US. Unfortunately immediately upon entering the US you would need to initiate the importation process. The fee is 1.5% but there are extras and you might want to hire a customs broker. Boats built in the US, Canada and Mexico are exempt from duties no matter where they were flagged before. I think I read that South African boats were exempt from duties because of a trade treaty but you'll have to check on that. Singlespeed did say that he visited the US without importing but I think that was illegal. I would advise him not to return on his boat unless he really checks this out. Last I heard Puerto Rico and the USVI were part of the US.
https://multihullcompany.com/article...-and-pay-duty/



And that dang tender can't be documented and has to be registered somewhere.
https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Our-Organiz...-FAQ/#anchor20

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

...Last I heard Puerto Rico and the USVI were part of the US.

While the USVI are part of the US, they are outside the US Customs Territory. A holdover from a very old treaty, but that's the reason you have to clear Customs when traveling back-and-forth between Puerto Rico (which is in the US Customs Territory) and the USVI. Also the reason that many shippers consider the USVI to be a "foreign" shipment even when shipped from the US.

The U.S. Virgin Islands (USVI) is an unincorporated territory of the United States that was purchased from Denmark in 1917. Although a U.S. territory, the USVI is expressly excluded by statute from the customs territory of the United States. Therefore, the USVI Legislature has the power to establish its own customs duties applicable to merchandise imported into the USVI. The current customs duties are an ad valorem rate with eligibility for exemption.

So, a US-flagged, non-imported boat can visit the USVI without worrying about being imported into the US. Jump across to PR and it's a whole other story (BTDT).

[Sand crab]

Thanks Dsanduril for clearing that up.
I forgot to mention that a potential hangup on the importation process is making sure the engines have the correct EPA certifications which varies by year. Foreign made boats may not have this.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Thanks Dsanduril for clearing that up.
I forgot to mention that a potential hangup on the importation process is making sure the engines have the correct EPA certifications which varies by year. Foreign made boats may not have this.

I've mentioned this on several threads lately, quite frankly the EPA certification is the only thing that CBP inspects on import (IME). They want their duty $, their forms, and want to see the required EPA emissions sticker on the engine(s). Everything else is a pretty simple formality, that sticker.....

[Sand crab]

I went back and reread singlespeeds post #13 aand it said this:
We bought our US documented boat in the BVI, never paid a U.S. tax to any state.
Was the boat ever imported into the US prior to your purchase because the importation stays with the boat forever as long as the boat is US documented. I assume this applies to state registration too but the rules are hazy on that.

[Wndrlst]

Originally Posted by sailcrazy

As US Citizens living and working in Asia, we bought our boat in Singapore, sailed her to the PI where we kept her, and documented her with the US Coast Guard. You will need to specify a Hailing Port (your choice), and then renew the USCG documentation ea year(you'll need an address for that). Over the past 20 years we have since sailed that boat around Asia, the Medd, and now the NE Caribb.....we keep the USCG documentation current, and that's all. We have checked into and out of multiple countries-all without issue. Almost all wanted to see/keep a copy of our USCG Docs, most wanted to see our proof of insurance, and some of the EU countries wanted my "Bare Boat Cert"....but nothing more. To my knowledge, as long as you don't have the boat in that state's waters, there's no requrmnt to register her with that, or any other, state.

So where is your boat registered? I'm American living in Grenanda looking at buying a boat here. I don't plan to sail back to the US except maybe the USVI or PR. Im fine with paying cruising permits while there since I'm sure it won't be for long. I'd rather register in Grenada and get USCG documented, if possible. Your saying with the USCG I can chose my hailing port, just wondering about registration and flag.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

...Dingy registration will get you. You were in the wrong there, as your dingy is a completely separate boat from your sailboat. If you had separately CG documented your dingy and had paperwork showing the amount of time it had spent there you would have been fine....

More bad advice in a thread full of it...

A vessel MUST measure at least 5 net tons to have a USCG documentation issued. If you have a documented dinghy, you mush have one HECK of a dinghy...

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Wndrlst

So where is your boat registered? I'm American living in Grenanda looking at buying a boat here. I don't plan to sail back to the US except maybe the USVI or PR. Im fine with paying cruising permits while there since I'm sure it won't be for long. I'd rather register in Grenada and get USCG documented, if possible. Your saying with the USCG I can chose my hailing port, just wondering about registration and flag.

Wndrlst, If you have USCG documentation and you are not sailing within the USA, then you don't need any "registration" as Sailcrazy was explaining. If you are a USA citizen, then the boat you buy in Grenada needs no registration other than the USCG Doc. I don't think Grenada is going to put 'registration' on your USA Flagged boat, though you will likely need a cruising permit of some kind. I don't know Grenada's specific rules, but you may need to leave and return periodically to keep an active cruising permit so you can avoid "importing" the boat to Grenada. again idk Grenada specifically. We were there for only 2 months and had 3mo. granted at initial check-in for a visiting yacht. Per noonsite you can extend that to 12mo's with fees but it is not clear if/when you would need to "import" the boat if you kept it there permanently.
Note: per Dsanduril post #25 you can visit the USVI but maybe not PR without paying import duties on the vessel.

[Wndrlst]

Thanks for your reply. I've been on a boat in Grenada for almost a year, they are renewing our cruising permits in 3 or 4 month intervals now, I have not been questioned about my length of stay and many cruisers here have been renewing for years without having to leave, so no worries there.
I'm wondering then about flagging, the pros and cons of flagging any other Country other than my own. I'm not trying to avoid taxation asni could easily register in a non tax State, I just wondered about flying another Country's flag. Could I keep the flag of the boat I'm buying for instance or does that always depend on that Country?