Used Boat Shopping, Adding Up the Numbers?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Khagan1227

I perfer to buy parts, materials or equipment, hide them on the boat, forget about them for a year, then find them one day and install them, at no cost to me!

Yeah, the no cost approach is good .

[Boulter]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Nice post. I think your basic "problem" is that you already know too much .

And whose fault is that? I thought all you Cruisers Forum guys and gals were my friends!

Boulter

[Navicula]

Originally Posted by Boulter

This is the situation I am in, but I don't know how it will turn out. The price I paid was under any other sold according to a list of sold boats I saw posted recently, so the starting point is in my favor.

Single cylinder 37 YO Yanmar engine that started right up at 50 degrees F (and I know it was the first start of the day because I was sleeping on the boat) - I am lead to believe that a really pooched diesel wouldn't consider starting at this temperature. Blue exhaust for about 15 seconds, then nice and clear. Back up plan one is to draft my truck mechanic buddy up the road if I run into trouble. Back up plan two is $12,000 ...

Sails were average sails, old but the stitching looks good. I am not interested in the last 0.1 knot, so should do a number of years.

Rigging is likely 37 year old original, but boat is fresh water only. If I had a dollar for every time I ran into the wisdom that rigging should be changed every 10 years, and a dollar for every boat I looked at that had original decades old rigging (at least 80 or 90%), I'd be rich twice. This is for me likely the biggest technical mystery in sailboats: complete opposition between what (is said) should be done and what is actually done. I am going to lift the chain plates and inspect the rigging for issues, but other than that, not changing it this year. I am a beginner, I won't be doing anything too wild for a few years yet that will exercise the rigging.

Cores: I have work. At least the cockpit floor, under the primary winches, and one stanchion. Generally high deck moisture readings everywhere, but then the survey was done 2 hours after lift out in the fall with visible moisture on the hull in places. There are reasonable chances that if I get the boat under a canopy and dry off the surface, my meter might give more favorable readings. Percussion soundings were good except in cases noted above.

Hull has already been epoxy barrier coated, so hopefully the blister problems, if any, are in the past.

Plenty of 37 year old gate valves, and likely 37 year old hoses attached to same, so a complete replacement or close to it is required of the plumbing.

The electrical is botched. Some work was done by the previous electrician owner, so of coarse regular house wire was used for the 120 volt stuff. No battery spill boxes, or any mechanical restraint of the batteries. Automotive battery charger. Home made shore power cords. All botched.

Canvas is "tired". No idea if this means I have 1 year or 5.

No significant electronics. Likely the 7 YO VHF isn't even legal in Canada as I could not find a sticker. Knotmeter and depth sounders have ruined LCD displays, they (apparently) work, I just can't quite make out the digits though. I don't have desire for much here. Not sure I would even replace the knotmeter and depth for the > $1000 it looks like this pair costs. About the only electronics I really covet is AP, and am trying to talk myself into a robust under deck system at about $5000. It is much of money, but to my way of thinking of more practical utility than all other electronics put together. Dropping a lead line 5 minutes here or there, reading paper charts and sailing by walking around and paying attention seems a whole lot less work that steering 4 straight hours, whereupon your partner takes over and does same. Rinse and repeat.

The boat is coming to my front (or side, not sure) yard tomorrow. I have 28 acres and those are the only 2 spots that are both level and accessible.

I really need to decide if this is a short term boat or long term. It really isn't what I wanted, but domestic pressure was bearing down and I had to buy something ... anything. When the end came, I had to choose between standing in front of a Douglas 32 or an Ontario 32. Douglas 32 sounded in way better shape, so if I were a 5'3" sailor I would have picked it. I am 6'4", so the Ontario 32 got the nod, warts and all. If this is the only boat I ever own, I could see myself being physically comfortable in it, and making it my own. The Douglas would always lack headroom and have a 9.5 foot beam. My capital expenditure plan needs to know up front whether I hold < 5 years or "forever". If forever, I might as well put another $15,000 or $30,000 into it now while it is easy to work on and I have the full force of my tooling and shop behind me. If a short term boat, I must resist the urge to spend money I both won't get back, nor use up the equipment the money paid for.

So if a short term boat, I need to do the seacocks and hoses, fix the core, inspect chainplates and standing rigging, and replace the electrical system. To do all this I am probably committed to another $7000 to $10,000, putting me north of $30,000 to get started. I am pretty sure I failed to get a great deal.

Next up would be stuff like AP, depth and knotmeter. To do this implies I think I am owning the boat for a longer rather than shorter term.

Finally comes the engine, which at 12 HP and raw water cooled, limits me I think to staying fairly close to home on the Great Lakes. Changing the engine I think really says this boat is a keeper. Maybe a heat exchanger can be hacked onto my engine, I don't know, but at only 2HP/ton, the engine is considered under sized I think.

Do all the above, and my bargain boat is at $50,000 give or take, a number higher than the ask price on all the other O32s currently for sale, and I have not replaced any rigging, sails, or canvas yet, that would be another $15,000 or so. Of coarse, my load for the next 10 years would be considerably lighter I think, as much of the major important stuff would all be new.

The adventure begins.

Boulter

this is the way I see it.....dont worry about a thing, clear blue skys ahead..............go for it and enjoy the fun........

[zeehag]

just do it. find what you like and go for it.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Tia Bu

Plus one on Boatman's post. Reread it carefully. A solidly maintained boat with good hull, deck, sails, and engine-- but without the newest electrical gadgets and cosmetic finishes-- will be at a real disadvantage as it seeks buyers. So you can probably get it for a song.

Then your upfit will be MUCH easier and less expensive.

I agree also with Boatman. I will add that life has been tough here in the Great Lakes with the economy. Great bargains can be found AND!!! - boats here have never seen salt and the in-water season is usually about 4 months with most boats only going out on weekends with perfect weather. Rigging is effectively almost as good as the day it was launched and a ten year old sail is really only 2. If you plan to add the gagets anyway, these boats probably have no water maker, SSB, SAT phone, Radar, AIS, auto pilot solar or wind generator. It will be a clean slate. Only about half of the boats in the yards here in Muskegon launched this last year. This is true all along the midwest shores. If you drive and shop over the next couple weeks you can also enjoy the fall colors. Good luck!!

[sailorboy1]

in the end you only "add up the numbers" to decide what boats to go look at

after that it is a feeling that you act on when you decide to buy one!

that's why we call boats "she and her" because guys apply the same to choosing women (don't trash me on this )

[terabika]

LOL, You all pay wayy too much for your boats ;-) Just bought a Hunter 430 for 3,700$ including a month of yard rent and a free splash. The Volvo works as does the genset and two AC units and the fridge freezer works as well. The hull is sound and the deck fine. It is a 1996. Well, is did have a bit of oxidation in the salon...the rapid kind, but hey! boat yard siezed it. and it sat open a year or so......has mast but need winches , sails and about fifty feet of wire and five thousand two hundred and sixty eight butt conectors ( I actually alw...ALWAYS solder)...Oh and I need a GOOD bit of VODKA for the next month! lol Cheers!