A solution for derelict boats!

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by captjohn7

I disagree. I travel down every year and your suggestion to be stopped and identified at every anchorage ( every night in transit ) is soooo unacceptable.

Ewwww. Yuck.

I disagree as well.

The cops don’t come over to you the first night. At least in most places. They wait a day or two days. That’s when they usually come over and start telling you about anchoring.

this of course, isn’t the case in some places. It’s different everywhere. Venice Florida for instance. They come to you the minute your anchor hits the ground.

Most likely because of all the washed up boats everywhere in such a small area and the at least half a dozen unattended long-term storage boats choking up their Anchorage.

my suggestion is that when the cops come up to you to tell you about the anchoring restrictions, they could then grab the identifying information in case you are one of those jerks that is going to leave the boat there forever, unattended, choking up the anchorage and causing environmental problems.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by windyone

Why not require insurance on the boats, at least enough to cover any disposal fees. I don’t know if mandatory insurance is required for automobiles on the highways of FL. However the waterways should require it.

Now this, I disagree with. I want more freedom. Not less.

I want to abolish the anchoring restrictions and insurance restrictions. And pin all of the responsibility on the actual owners.

[Patricia Tye]

You can only hold people financially responsible if they have money. Most of these derelict boats are not owned by people with resources to pay for insurance much less removal. It is also a very tedious and expensive process to legally remove boats in Florida. There are steps that must be performed to "take" a vessel even if abandoned. Most municipalities don't have the resources to hired someone just to manage their derelict boat problem. The long, arduous process is why so many cities have tried to eliminate it by banning anchoring or establishing mooring fields. As someone who has insurance but prefers to anchor it irritates me that so much bureaucracy exits that drive towns and counties to take such drastic measures.

[notoldbilbo]

I'm writing this from England. The OLD one. And this thread has been an eye-opener! If memory serves, your ancestors left the likes of here to live lives freed from the constraints of petty officialdom and 'too much government'. I'd long bought into the principle that 'The best possible government is the least possible government' and I suspect that idea originates from somewhere over your side of The Pond.


What went wrong?



For quite some time I've mused about sailing my modest sailboat from Plymouth here ( the ORIGINAL one ) to Newport RI ( NOT the one on the Isle of Wight ) but the startling revelations here suggest I ought instead to stop at The Azores or Canada.



Strewth, if I managed to feel my way past Brenton Reef Tower into the madhouse that is Newport Harbour, it sounds like I'd be 'given the bum's rush' before the saltwater sores on my bum had even healed.

[peter loveridge]

just in reply about registration numbers, in Canada, if your boat is, like mine, registered as a Canadian Ship by the Federal Government , you don't have numbers displayed. You do have to have the boat name and port of registry on the stern ( this, again on my boat is pretty inconspicuous) and a pretty permanent mark of some sort with the registration number and tonnage inside. Also provinces and municipalities have no jurisdiction on any navigable waterway. or on any Federally registered vasse.. The Coastguard can inspect you, but they have to ask, and the RCMP have to have reasonable grounds, and on the rare instances they've wanted to board me, they have always asked. The Department of Fisheries can inspect you without consent if they think you have fish on board, as can Wildlife protection. but again they have to have reasonable grounds. Border Protection cand board randomly, but they stay on the land, any on water stuff is done by the RCMP. There is one major difference from the US. Any LEO has to put in a report in writing any time their gun is taken out of its holster, this reduces incidents to a vanishingly small number

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by notoldbilbo

I'm writing this from England. The OLD one. And this thread has been an eye-opener! If memory serves, your ancestors left the likes of here to live lives freed from the constraints of petty officialdom and 'too much government'. I'd long bought into the principle that 'The best possible government is the least possible government' and I suspect that idea originates from somewhere over your side of The Pond.


What went wrong?



For quite some time I've mused about sailing my modest sailboat from Plymouth here ( the ORIGINAL one ) to Newport RI ( NOT the one on the Isle of Wight ) but the startling revelations here suggest I ought instead to stop at The Azores or Canada.



Strewth, if I managed to feel my way past Brenton Reef Tower into the madhouse that is Newport Harbour, it sounds like I'd be 'given the bum's rush' before the saltwater sores on my bum had even healed.

this is a great post. And you couldn’t be more accurate.

we have lost our way when it comes to small government. it is huge and we only have two parties here so they both make it bigger whenever they are in office. It’s an out-of-control monster.

in any case, you could go to Newport. It would be fun. You just have to go to a different Anchorage after your two weeks are up. I suspect they would be a little bit more lenient with you however. There is a great deal of respect shown to people who have come from overseas to these harbors. they might even bend the rule for you. Or in any case, just a few hours away you could go somewhere else when the time is up, then return to Newport for another two weeks. that’s how the restrictions work in that harbor.

It’s not two weeks per year. It’s just two weeks consecutively then you have to leave.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Patricia Tye

You can only hold people financially responsible if they have money. Most of these derelict boats are not owned by people with resources to pay for insurance much less removal. It is also a very tedious and expensive process to legally remove boats in Florida. There are steps that must be performed to "take" a vessel even if abandoned. Most municipalities don't have the resources to hired someone just to manage their derelict boat problem. The long, arduous process is why so many cities have tried to eliminate it by banning anchoring or establishing mooring fields. As someone who has insurance but prefers to anchor it irritates me that so much bureaucracy exits that drive towns and counties to take such drastic measures.

I agree. The process is too long for them to remove the boat. Too complicated. Very tedious.

I suppose it was made that way so that people didn’t lose their boats prematurely. But it’s pretty easy to tell when a boat needs to be gone versus when it’s OK. you can usually tell by the angle of the mast. Ha ha ha

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Funny.....try talking about your rights as you are about to be boarded by the Coast Guard, or the go-fast DEA boat with armed agents aboard, let me know how that works out for you.

A co-operative attitude will prove to be the far better game plan than a blank refusal.

It may be your Constitutional right to refuse to show identity to a policeman or anyone else, but as a US citizen, I would never consider that option.
A cooperative attitude is always the best way to deal with authority, whether or not you have done anything wrong.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by wholybee

What I say might be unpopular, but if the situation in Florida is similar to here, (and similar to homeless drug addicts elsewhere in California) it isn't about clearing out derelict boats, it is about making mentally ill people wards of the state and forcibly putting them in the programs they need. I know that runs afoul of people's rights, but I would argue that allowing a mentally ill person to live in waste, drugs, and ultimately die runs afoul of rights too.

I am just east of you and agree with your outlook on this situation. In another life, I worked as a chemical dependency counselor and later in mental health as a psycho-social rehabilitation counselor. Currently, my wife's adult daughter is a street person with over 20 years of affliction. She doesn't want help and tells us she likes the life style. Although she wants a hand out which I put a stop to early on. The thing is, they want to be left alone but we have to pay for their resources. The trash build up as well as human waste and drug paraphernalia are very major concerns.

Illegal liveaboards on derelict boats is their last stop before residing in a car or tent...so I see their fear. There is a documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw&t=104s

which is very informative and really shows the problems and in some ways a solution. To just throw fist after fist of tax-payer money is not the solution.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

We are from the same part of the country. Same values when it comes to that.

I might be a drifter, but there is no shaking how I was raised.

Plus one captain Tom. Good post!

Al, S/V Finlandia

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Speaking of less traffic, the ICW on the east coast Florida is dead. Hardly any through traffic.

Might be because I’m early season to had north though.

I suspect it is because you’re early this year Chotu. It’s always pretty slow this time of year.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by OS2Dude

Looking up the owners via registration number and HINs sounds good, but it assumes the data is available and current. I can see someone contacted because of a registration saying they sold the boat 'years ago' and did not keep up with the bill of sale. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. Maybe the owner died, left the country or just can't be found. Then there is an investigation trying to track down any relevant data and possibly a court battle with someone in another state. It seems hard enough to get a boat declared a derelict so it can be removed to spend the time and money on a chance they might be able to get an irresponsible owner to pay for it.

I liked an idea I saw once that all boats must be kept sea-worthy in order to stay in a particular area.

Reading this, I suppose a paper trail could be established making the seller (or donator) responsible for the transfer paper work. A Bill of Sale WITH the buyer or receiver would have to produce some form of ID with an address in order to not make the donor/seller responsible. There could be a one year safe period to let that law sink in to the boating community.

[svfinlandia]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

The problem is the abundance of 40- to 50-year-old boats that aren't restorable, aren't insurable and aren't disposable.


The owner looks around and finds a near-homeless person looking for a cheap or free place to live and dumps the vessel to escape paying for cutting up the boat.


Anchorages could be unregulated back in the good old days because there were no near-derelict boats. Neglected wooden boats sank and didn't become floating homeless shelters.


Eliminating these trashed fiberglass boats is a big issue that would improve the quality of cruising for everyone.


I feel some empathy for people who, through bad luck and/or poor choices, end up destitute and find that a derelict boat is their only means of obtaining shelter,



However, I also feel sorry for the people who spend several million on waterfront property and awaken one morning to the sight of a drifter hanging his butt off the stern as he does his morning constitutional.


I'm also not happy with these boats washing up on shore during storms, sewage and other pollution from them poisoning the waters and the unsightly picture they present in waterfront communities.


My solution? States need to set up a program to deal with their disposal. Recycle metals and other valuables, then tag the last registered owners with the balance of the bills.


Any boat found to be unregistered and in unseaworthy condition (no means of propulsion, structural damage, overall unsightliness, etc.) would be towed away and disposed of.


A registered vessel in terrible condition would be cited and given a reasonable amount of time for restoration.


Yeah, it's government intruding on some people's lives. But sometimes they need intruding on when they're creating a mess for everyone else.


And yeah, it hurts people who live on boats and don't have any money. But really, in the 21st century, you have no business owning a sizeable boat if you don't have a thick wallet.


It costs so much to maintain a boat these days that if you don't have money, it is inevitable that your vessel will end up an eyesore.

I guess I have to agree with this post also.
From my trips from North Carolina to Florida I have photos of boats washed up on shore and masts sticking up out of water along Florida’s Intracoastal waterway.
I was in Titusville again recently and was appalled at how many boats are washed up on shore near the town park.
Some kind of fund needs to be set up, especially in Florida, to rid the intracoastal of derelict boats that are abandoned or sunk or washed ashore during storms.
I don’t believe that money for this fund should come from Florida’s general revenue since folks who don’t own boats should not have to pay for the problem.
The NOAA grant program sounds promising and I don’t understand why it isn’t being used more. Using part of a boatyard as a boat salvage yard also sounds like an excellent idea.

Al, S/V Finlandia

[Cheechako]

Uhh... Most of the derelict people on derelict boats don't have any money to pay for removal if you track them down. Why do you think they are in that situation?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Uhh... Most of the derelict people on derelict boats don't have any money to pay for removal if you track them down. Why do you think they are in that situation?

sorry. Only going off Florida experience at the moment. The derelict people are gone. So are those liveaboard derelict boat bum boats. No more near-homeless on boats.

these are now people with means who are not getting marinas. Just stuffing their boat into the Anchorage for unattended long term storage until they sink or end up ashore during the next storm. That’s what I saw this year. All over the place.

Jerks (who need to be held responsible)

People breaking social norms. Selfishness. Greed.