America’s Cup - ETNZ launches 1st AC75 (new)

[MicHughV]

true.....you give an interesting perspective on the matter......

I'm a keen follower of the Vendee around the world race..these are all single-handed skippers....ok, there is a full time auto-pilot at work, but these boat are also state of the art....foils...canting keels....water ballast...etc.....and they sail in some pretty knarly waters for 24,000 or more nautical miles......by one person......and often by a woman...haven't seen that yet in the AC series..!!!

....the AC 75's, for all their performance, are smooth water boats only, like an F1 race car....they are high performance, track only cars...the average guy in the street is likely never going to set foot in one of these machines, anymore than your average sailor is likely to step aboard an AC 75.

This is really where I see a disconnect..the AC, like the FI races, is really an exclusive club, it takes deep pockets to field a boat, meaning your average Joe in the Street is likely never to contend here.

There are many other sailboat races, of every description and duration, but sailing, until recently, has been out of the eye of the spectator.. the AC has been a case of one billionaire pitting his dollars against another billionaire..but now with sat, drones, and the like, these are coming to people's living rooms like never before..

I'm just yakking here, but I'd love to see more contenders in this game....havn't seen the Brits here in quite some time...and would love to see the French.. or the Dutch....etc...

The AC has come a long way from the old 12M yachts....so I guess it's a work in progress..

[Pelagic]

I think by the next time AC rolls arround, speed and control reliability developments will have mostly peaked, crews will have practiced and competed in regattas over 4 years so that the learning curve will not be so steep.
Course dimensions will change so that the winning the start is not such a massive advantage as it is now.

This will make for closer competition, where wind shifts and tactics will even out most of the hardware discrepancies .

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

ah well, sorry to see the Brits go.....

let's get this over with now.....the final is reportedly just going to be a formality..

I'm hoping your wrong and we get a close competition.

NZ will be more nervous at the starts with Spithill knowing that he is in the nation's heads.

The starts are so key to controling that if Spithill keeps winning them, they will win races.

[MicHughV]

I've done a few sailboat races in my time, and my starts have been reasonable, ie, I get over the line before the last boat does...

The few times I've gone racing with a Pro, it's a different matter....stopwatches come out, and there is a terrific amount of yelling, screaming, maneuvering, etc,....all this to get at the line in that split second the gun goes off......on a 50 mile, or 1,000 mile race, I can't see where this matters much, but that is me.....but in the same breath, I must add, that even after these distances, every second counts, at the finish line.

The recent Vendee 2020/21 is classic....despite the length of the race, 24,000 miles and almost 3 months, the first few boats were within hours of each other, and the first over the line was not the actual winner..

So, back to the AC, yes, I wonder where the future lies...The Kiwi's are not going to hand this cup over to the Italians without a fight, so that is a given...but it would be interesting to see the Italians host this event....and I certainly would like to see the Brits take another crack at it..

I guess we'll know soon enuff...

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

So, back to the AC, yes, I wonder where the future lies...The Kiwi's are not going to hand this cup over to the Italians without a fight, so that is a given...but it would be interesting to see the Italians host this event....and I certainly would like to see the Brits take another crack at it..

I guess we'll know soon enuff...

Hopefully the Brits will do away with that 'serves no purpose' keel..
Pretty sure that's what is costing them acceleration and speed.

[dfelsent]

Over decades of racing I learned quiet is fast. Loud and yelling is an expression of fear and anxiety and loss of control. Pro or not.
I used to be beaten regularly by the quiet boats that did not appear to move a muscle while just leaving us in their dust.
eventually we learned how to do that. Quietly.
Takes a practiced team but when you learn how to control your competitors and how to SEE that it’s quite amazing.
The AC boats are quiet. There is a reason for that. All business and communication. Look at the pulse rates of the skippers.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Hopefully the Brits will do away with that 'serves no purpose' keel..

Pretty sure that's what is costing them acceleration and speed.

I guess you mean that fat bilge keel - yes, that was always weird, when the three others have skinny ones that just work to prevent air leakage from one side to the other. That extra wetted surface and perhaps form drag certainly could have contributed to their lower speed issues.

Note that only LRPP and TNZ have full length keels, and that TNZ fly quite a bit lower to keep that keel as close to the water as possible.

In the end, it wasn’t raw boat speed but rather VMG that hurt IUK (plus some sailing issues). LRPP seemed to sail consistently higher upwind and lower downwind, for the same boat speed.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I've done a few sailboat races in my time, and my starts have been reasonable, ie, I get over the line before the last boat does...

The few times I've gone racing with a Pro, it's a different matter....stopwatches come out, and there is a terrific amount of yelling, screaming, maneuvering, etc,....all this to get at the line in that split second the gun goes off......on a 50 mile, or 1,000 mile race, I can't see where this matters much, but that is me.....but in the same breath, I must add, that even after these distances, every second counts, at the finish line.

In match races winning the start quite often means winning the race. Winning the start does not necessarily mean being at the line at zero time at full speed. Match racing is mostly being in a position to control and keep the one and only other boat in the race behind you. You could be minutes behind the gun as long as you are positioned to give the other guy bad air and control him with the racing rules right of way.

Of course when the other boat is significantly faster than you it is mostly impossible to keep them behind you with tactics and then it doesn't matter what you do.

[MicHughV]

Yes, match racing is in it's own special genre of racing. Many rules. Can't think of another race event where you have a powerboat filled with race officials tagging along in your wake, in addition to yet more officials watching you from their eye in the sky, watching your every move.

It's as much a tactical battle as generating boat speed. The AC teams practice their starts on computer simulators, and against power boats, and against each other.

But certainly having that extra 0.5 knots of speed was telling in the Prada Cup.

Ah well, look forward to the final. Should be a good show.

[Apollo19.5]

Years ago, a mate ran an elite training academy at a yacht club in Sydney area. I use to race with that mate a fair bit and won many state and national titles with him. He asked me to be a guests coach for a weekend with his trainees. They were your typical teenagers who loved sailing and the rub and tangle of match racing. All were very good. The one thing that stood out to me after watching their first round of match up races were that they focused too much on boat to boat and forgot about how to chase raw speed by constant gear changing and getting their heads out of the boat a bit more. During the on water debrief, I discussed the importance of being able to 'burn' the opposition off to either get out of a controlled position or get into a controlling one. One of the trainees started asking lots of questions trying understand what I was trying to explain. He ended up going out on the next session with us as his crew to demonstrate the point I was trying to make. The whole time he was asking questions and working through his processes. When were able to power out of a vunerable leeway position (set up on purpose) and then burn off the other boat, the point was made, but he was consistently wanting to development more and asked more questions. I walked away from that weekend thinking that kid was going to be great (was already better than I was in reality). That kid was Jimmy Spitthill! Even back then he had that same drive, calmness and aggression to be better that I see on the race track now. I wish him well.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Apollo19.5

The one thing that stood out to me after watching their first round of match up races were that they focused too much on boat to boat and forgot about how to chase raw speed by constant gear changing and getting their heads out of the boat a bit more. During the on water debrief, I discussed the importance of being able to 'burn' the opposition off to either get out of a controlled position or get into a controlling one.

Cool story And it's exactly what we saw from Luna Rossa. When Ineos was matching them and sailing boat for boat Luna Rossa switched focus to 'raw speed' as you put it - in their case 'high mode' - to burn off Ineos.

Ineos simply had no answer to this. They had no 'extra gear' to switch to.

Now of course the boot may be on the other foot for Luna Rossa when it comes to racing against ETNZ in the Cup match...

Because the latest rumour going around is that ETNZ hit 57kn during training

[wingssail]

In 2000 Sid Fisher sent a boat to the Luis Vuitton series in Auckland. It was a second hand boat and they named it Young Australia. The crew was kids, really, none of the seasoned pros that manned the other boats competing for the America's Cup that year.

Young Australia was slow. They were creative and tried some interesing stuff with the rig to make the boat faster, but it was clearly a " Low budget-one boat program".

But they won the starts! It was noticed around the Viaduct Basin. Who were these kids that could best the best of the world starting in a second hand boat?

Jimmy Spithill was the helmsman. He was so young that his dad shadowed him around the AC Village and gave him tips from the audience during the presser's. ("shish, Jimmy, Take you cap off.") but he had the stuff. That was 21 years ago.

Photo: Louis Vuitton skippers, 2000. Jimmy Spithill, Young Austrailia, far left.

[jmh2002]

You are right Fred

And this is part of the discussion of more teams vs less teams.

Some say there is no sense in having more teams, since they are generally second rate, and only 'making up the numbers' so to speak. They never have a chance at winning.

Others say it gives the opportunity for newer teams and younger and/or less experienced crew members to get a taste of this action. They still won't win, but it does help bring new talent into the sport, or to this level of the sport.

I tend to agree with the later opinion.

Yes there are various feeder events, yes there are 'youth' versions of the Cup and other competitions, and they probably provide better racing given the more even playing field.

But there is nothing quite like going up against the big guns. You'll probably get taught some lessons, in more ways than one. But who knows, you may even get lucky on occasion and get a piece of them or at least give them a fright. Even the top teams make mistakes.

Jimmy Spihill speaks very fondly of the time spent in Auckland in 2000 with Young Australia.

He may not even be involved in the America's Cup if it wasn't for that.

So despite all the rhetoric - much toned down so far during this event - Jimmy actually has a bit of a soft spot for Auckland and the Kiwis (he just keeps it well hidden from the public eye ). Young Australia and the Crew were well looked after and appreciated here by the public, the event, and the other competitors.

[Pelagic]

AC 2000 was magic!
The unkown of Y2k,
Sydney Olympics next and the Kiwi Nation so proud and eager to defend.

America One was my favourite team, but I was invited to visit all of them.
Then as each campagn got knocked out, tactitions and skippers took turns sailing with us as expert commentators as we were the primary sponsor's boat

The best was getting to know Sir Peter Blake and Pippa over those months .

What I find interesting now, 21 years later is that all that insider info we were privileged to enjoy,
...is now shared better to the viewing audience thru amazing coverage.

[MicHughV]

57 knots is hauling arse...no two ways about....that is 65 mph....the speed limit on a lot of roads...hope this is not going to be a blow out...
I wonder if that new funky spiky sail has anything to do with it ???