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fxykty · 06-03-2021, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I just wonder if the AC format will change into more of a Formula One fomat?
Approx 1 hour races held in different venues every month with teams competing for championship points and sponsorship.
Crowded starts, various battles and high speed crossings

That’s Sail GP.

The AC has the Deed of Gift, and that requires match racing.

There was a plan to have three pre-regattas, but except for the Auckland one they were cancelled due to Covid. Pre-regattas will remain - its a good way to showcase the event in larger markets and it keeps the sailing teams busy.

MicHughV · 06-03-2021, 12:09

If LR should win this event and the cup goes to Italy, there are going to be many hands out for a piece of the pie...but it will undoubtably be colorful....and the spectators will have their fill of pizza...

All conjecture at this point though....

C'mon, next week.....

wingssail · 06-03-2021, 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I just wonder if the AC format will change into more of a Formula One fomat?
Approx 1 hour races held in different venues every month with teams competing for championship points and sponsorship.
Crowded starts, various battles and high speed crossings

The format could be changed to a lot of things, and they could give any of them the name "America's Cup" but it would not be.

Use of the name and the cup, both of which were donated under the terms of the deed of gift, specify quite a few specific requirements:

Match racing
Nationality requirements for boat and crew
Challenger must be a yacht club with certain kinds and numbers of races already and annually conducted
Sailed on an arm of the sea
Limited to 90 ft
and more

Of course the defender and challenger can agree on different rules and terms,

however...
A third party can sue in the state of New York (where deed of gift was filed) and force the club holding the cup to adhere to the terms of the deed of gift. Larry Ellison did this in 2007 when he claimed that Alinghi violated the terms of the deed of gift and forced Alinghi to conduct the cup according to the deed.

Historically, and according to the intent of the original cup holder, the America's Cup has been a match race between teams representing nations in large and horrendously expensive boats which have no other purpose. Some rich guy challenges the cup holder and they race.

No need for spectators, TV coverage, 1 hour races, crowded start lines, or demolition derbies.

No need for multi billion dollar infrastructure and race organization. You need a committee boat and a couple of marks and go race.

MicHughV · 06-03-2021, 13:39

There seems to be a thin line regarding the nationality of the crew....
I seem to recall that in the " old days", the crew had to come from the same country as the boat did, but that does not appear to be the case anymore.....

The America's Cup event has had it's share of rule bending and different interpretation viewpoints and more. The Fay super mono/cat debacle was certainly one for the books.

Ah well, c'mon next week, let's see where this is headed.......

**Jim Cate** · 06-03-2021, 14:04

Quote:

I keep saying this...the first two races will tell all

Umm.... just like in San Francisco?

Jim

Pelagic · 06-03-2021, 15:55

No need for spectators, TV coverage, 1 hour races, crowded start lines, or demolition derbies.

No need for multi billion dollar infrastructure and race organization. You need a committee boat and a couple of marks and go race...unquote

Agree, No need for any of that,
....but the sales and marketting groups who build up the hype that feeds the national and individual egos of the team sponsors, would think it has always been an integral part of this event.

What I see now is that foiling speeds are attracting non sailors to watch and will be more sustainable as an entertainment and marketting tool if it follows what foxy called the GP events

If im right, AC will either incorporate to be part of it, or disappear

Compass790 · 06-03-2021, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Umm.... just like in San Francisco?

Jim

I will just say this Jim. ( but its a lot lol )

In San Fran. every race official was paid by Larry Ellison. It may have had no effect on the outcome but ya gotta wonder.
A point to consider. In San Fran. the wind limit was dropped frm 33 knts to 23 knts for the AC from the challenger finals.
I think that a design change decided the outcome as usual so may have had nothing to do with the rules.
Dean Barker did not suddenly become a bad helmsman ( in 2013 ), Oracle got faster.

Ben Ainslie wasnt happy in this edition when the wind limit was dropped from 23 knts to 21 after the semis.
It's perfectly understandable why that happened but would you be happy if part way thru a competition & the rules suddenly got changed in favour of yr competitor?
I'm with Ben Ainslie, there's nothing fair about the AC but the billionaires who jump in & win it ( Think Alinghi & Oracle ) buy the sailors & the designers so they have a good starting point.
He's just gotta accept you need a faster boat & if Australia could win it under NYYC rules anything is possible.

I suspect this maybe LR's failing, they seem to have a mostly Italian setup as Britannia did.
Of course I might be proved wrong this time as the boats change so much btwn cups but the odds dropping from 70c to 25c ( at last look) suggest otherwise.
Let the chat stop & the racing begin.

fxykty · 07-03-2021, 21:49

America's Cup 2021: Team New Zealand's Ray Davies reveals new elements on Te Rehutai
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12426892

Lots of changes: two new mainsails, six new jibs, new mast, new rudder, new elevator, new set of foils (even smaller, with a blended-foil bulb).

Only two sleeps left to the first two races. NW 9-10 knots, so probably course E. Thursday SW 12 knots but no racing. Friday no wind.

**Jim Cate** · 07-03-2021, 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxykty

America's Cup 2021: Team New Zealand's Ray Davies reveals new elements on Te Rehutai
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12426892

Lots of changes: two new mainsails, six new jibs, new mast, new rudder, new elevator, new set of foils (even smaller, with a blended-foil bulb).

Only two sleeps left to the first two races. NW 9-10 knots, so probably course E. Thursday SW 12 knots but no racing. Friday no wind.

Evolution revealed before our very eyes! Survival of the fittest shall soon be demonstrated.

Actually sounds kinda like they jacked up the logo and drove a new boat in under it. Just wonderous to behold.

Jim

jmh2002 · 07-03-2021, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxykty

Lots of changes: two new mainsails, six new jibs, new mast, new rudder, new elevator, new set of foils (even smaller, with a blended-foil bulb)...

Reading between the lines though, the article mentions everything has changed since 'last year', since they 'raced the other teams'.

So I think we have seen most of those changes. It's all the things that they have been out testing over the past couple of months (I think - meaning, not all new gear that they have fitted this week).

Pelagic · 08-03-2021, 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by fxykty

America's Cup 2021: Team New Zealand's Ray Davies reveals new elements on Te Rehutai
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/new...ectid=12426892

Lots of changes: two new mainsails, six new jibs, new mast, new rudder, new elevator, new set of foils (even smaller, with a blended-foil bulb).

Only two sleeps left to the first two races. NW 9-10 knots, so probably course E. Thursday SW 12 knots but no racing. Friday no wind.

Thanks for that reveal.....

I enjoyed this Spithill interview where he noted that in 2013 all the pre race anaysis on performance was backwards .

So for Wednesday's first race what's your best guess on performance differential:
Upwind
Downwind
And in whose favor?

I haven't a clue!

https://youtu.be/MSh7vUsbCHY

fxykty · 08-03-2021, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Thanks for that reveal.....

I enjoyed this Spithill interview where he noted that in 2013 all the pre race anaysis on performance was backwards .

So for Wednesday's first race what's your best guess on performance differential:
Upwind
Downwind
And in whose favor?

I haven't a clue!

https://youtu.be/MSh7vUsbCHY

No idea, that’s why despite the lawyers and gazillionaires and everything else, it’s sport - we just don’t know until they enter the starting area for the first time.

Yah, 2013, it seems the consensus is that TNZ got themselves onto a performance plateau that was fast and had consistent upwind foiling, but didn’t have or weren’t capable of finding anymore speed. Oracle had a generally faster boat (smaller foils, some other stuff too) but weren’t able to control it well enough and couldn’t keep it on the foils upwind.

During the AC they were working on and completed a new foil control system that they installed during the lay days in the middle of the series, when 7:1 down. As they learnt to use it and got their boat consistently foiling upwind, that was it for TNZ - Oracle was now faster upwind and matching speed downwind. It didn’t help that TNZ made more mistakes on the water in the next few races than ever before or since.

fxykty · 08-03-2021, 14:02

Not sure about access overseas, but this show is back to showcase the beginnings of Team NZ, starting with the 1987 cup.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/black-m...-zealand-story

fxykty · 09-03-2021, 15:33

Race course E selected today for forecast NW 12-15 knots. Currently it is 302* 10 knots with gusts to 14 at Passage Rock, just east of the course. Bean rock, just west of the course, is showing 349* 11 knots with gusts to 13.

It is expected to be shifty and gusty.

Can’t wait!!!