Buy with all the work done or pay to have it done?

[Moosemiester]

I have a boat worth $25k that I have $100k in, plus thousands of hours of labor. Had I paid someone, I’d have $200k in it. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t change a thing, I’ve enjoyed every minute.

My story is not all that unusual.

When I give up boating due to age who ever buys my boat will get a great deal. THIS is the boat you want to look for.

[Statistical]

A good reason to buy a fixer upper boat is if you like DIY work even the gross, hot, dirty work. Not pretending you like it because you are going to save a fortune (you won't) but genuinely like it. There are people like that and they likely would work on their boat even if it wasn't in dire need of work. There is some satisfaction in knowing your fixed your boat up right.

Understand that the "worse" the work the more bang for your buck it is. Electronics are 90% parts and maybe 10% labor (being generous). Fiberglass repair work or wood work is 90% labor and 10% parts. So putting in new electronics isn't going to save you anything. I mean you get to enjoy the new electronics but you aren't going to come out ahead. Getting hot and gross putting hours in doing fiberglass work might save you some.


If all that sounds horrible then buy the newest highest condition best maintained boat that your budget allows.

[JohnParkerSJ]

I’ve yet to hear a complaint about spending too much on a labor of love. I also have heard no matter how nice a boat you buy, it’s still a labor of love, just maybe not too much labor if you buy something extremely well maintained and cared for upfront. I think I’ll start my search looking for something as nice as I can afford or want to spend and see how it goes. I’ll start with my search mentioned above and see where this journey leads me. Thanks for the note on the surveyor. Was hoping for a repair sheet and a negotiation sheet for that cost. Thinking a Catalina or Beneteau ~40’ for 100-120k depending on condition and extras. I feel like at least I have plan thanks to everyone on this thread. So helpful! Always open for more information. Thanks!

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Statistical

A good reason to buy a fixer upper boat is if you like DIY work even the gross, hot, dirty work. Not pretending you like it because you are going to save a fortune (you won't) but genuinely like it. There are people like that and they likely would work on their boat even if it wasn't in dire need of work. There is some satisfaction in knowing your fixed your boat up right.

Understand that the "worse" the work the more bang for your buck it is. Electronics are 90% parts and maybe 10% labor (being generous). Fiberglass repair work or wood work is 90% labor and 10% parts. So putting in new electronics isn't going to save you anything. I mean you get to enjoy the new electronics but you aren't going to come out ahead. Getting hot and gross putting hours in doing fiberglass work might save you some.


If all that sounds horrible then buy the newest highest condition best maintained boat that your budget allows.

The electronics 90% parts 10% labor is how people end up with wire rats nests.

Neatly and cleanly cabling new or retrofit electronics takes a considerable amount of time to route, tie and label.

A well done install of anything will typically work out to a 50/50 division of parts and labor. Sure a lot of labor time can be saved by laying a hose across a compartment....but is that really what anybody wants?

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by TRob

On the other hand, there are people out there who barely have time enough to use their boat, let alone take the time to manage upgrades and repairs. It all depends on who you are and what you plan on to do ...

This is a key element not focused on too much as yet, TRob.

Fixing up a boat takes TIME. And much longer time than any owner ever expects or anticipates. That time = not sailing or enjoying the boat or being on the water.

Here's a recent thread about getting a repair done - what the owner thought would be a fairly straightforward job - and the more they yard got into the repair, the worse it turned out to be (2 weeks turned into 4 months). I maintain that the yard did good work and acted with integrity, but you'll see what the general tenor of the replies were:

Disputing Boatyard Charges
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...es-247733.html

I'm with Flod:

Originally Posted by Flod

One dollar spent on an old boat is maybe equal to 15 cent in cash. You do the math. My 2c is to buy the boat in the best condition you can afford to buy and own.

Fair winds and good luck with your search!
LittleWing77

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by JohnParkerSJ

I’ve yet to hear a complaint about spending too much on a labor of love. I also have heard no matter how nice a boat you buy, it’s still a labor of love, just maybe not too much labor if you buy something extremely well maintained and cared for upfront. I think I’ll start my search looking for something as nice as I can afford or want to spend and see how it goes. I’ll start with my search mentioned above and see where this journey leads me. Thanks for the note on the surveyor. Was hoping for a repair sheet and a negotiation sheet for that cost. Thinking a Catalina or Beneteau ~40’ for 100-120k depending on condition and extras. I feel like at least I have plan thanks to everyone on this thread. So helpful! Always open for more information. Thanks!

Yes, I think you are on track with your boat choices. Make sure you get a shallow draft for Chesapeake Bay and Bahamas. Don’t obsess over Bluewater capability but instead obsess over condition and upgrades that someone else paid for already. Of your list I like catalinas the best for what you describe with Beneteau in second place.

When I was boat browsing seven years ago thinking about upsizing, I pounced on my current boat near asking price because it had been doted on and extremely well-maintained and lightly used. That said, my upgrade and systems replacement list over the last seven years is extensive as will be yours.
So no need to start with deferred maintenance, structural, and cosmetic issues on top of that.

[malbert73]

Basically many buyers who end up over their heads in projects go into the market looking for “biggest boat for the least money”

I suggest deliberately looking for best maintained and best condition boat within your size and price range.

There really are no “bargains” that make it to market. If the price seems too good to be true, it is.

[sail sfbay]

Buy it with the work already done since that will be more cost effective in my experience.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by JohnParkerSJ

Would love a little steerage here. Looking at 38+ monohulls and finding a pretty big range. Getting a price to upgrade and really mint a 1985+ 38+ sailboat isn’t easy. So many people involved. Electronics, hull/deck, engine, sails etc.
Looking at some great boats, some seem to need some serious TLC and some look amazing. Just beautiful! So I’m stuck with spending 50-80k for a 25yr+ older boat or something in the same age, but beautiful for 90-120k. Understand there is a big difference between a Hunter and an IP, but staying at the same level boat, I still question do I go a little beat up with need of electronics, sails and possible engine or pay upfront and take the cream puff. Love to hear how painful the overhaul would be or would that be the way to go?

Family of 4
2 small children
Marina with a pool
Flipped a few houses, but never a sailboat
Many years of owning larger motor boats and ready to move my summer home onto the water

Curious if anyone has gotten such information in a survey? Is there a marina with a broker that can do it all? Looking in the MD area near Grasonville.

So what will I be doing you ask? Sleeping overnight, enjoying a calm day on the Chesapeake and a once a year trip to the Bahamas. Have done the trip a few times by motor. Without the kids . But now would like to bring them.

Appreciate any insight or do i just flip a coin? And I won’t be doing the work. All professionals.

It really depends on what the boat "means to you". If you just want "a boat" and don't care about make, model, construction, sailing qualities, etc. then by all means consider the boat in best condition for the least dollars. Because you really don't care about the boat; it is just a vehicle to your pleasure on the water which you can dispose of easily when you and your family get bored with it.

I experienced something very much like that when looking for a cabin near a California ski area many years ago. Many were dumps because the area catered to people who were just skiers (my family wasn't) and the majority didn't care very much about where they stayed...they were there only to ski...end of story.

It all depends on what the boat means to you.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Clivevon]

Originally Posted by Flod

One dollar spent on an old boat is maybe equal to 15 cent in cash. You do the math. My 2c is to buy the boat in the best condition you can afford to buy and own.

So, so true - except when its worth less than 15 cents... And this is experience, not a guess.

[Clivevon]

Originally Posted by CarlF

The other advantage of a boat in great shape is that it had a caring and knowledgeable owner who didn't cut maintenance corners. Surveyors never find everything - or even close to everything.

Look for a beautiful boat owned by an old guy who's only selling because his wife is making him - because he's too old to be going up a mast to fix something.

You can buy mine - maybe in 5 years plus if I'm lucky....

Seriously, do remember that boats are made out of parts, all of which have a limited life. Around 20 years old a lot of things will need changing / upgrading. So: sails, rigging, electronics.... Probably not the engine, not just yet.

Your search is finding too many boats. Look harder for one, maybe a little older, which has been mostly done already. You may not find one - but it is worth looking hard. Good luck. With your budget you should find a good boat.

[BCCLover]

Originally Posted by JohnParkerSJ

I was thinking you could buy a 50k boat, put 50k into it and have a 120k boat.

hahahaha. More like buy a 50k boat, put 50k into it, and have a 50k boat.

[JohnParkerSJ]

Definitely got a clearer picture. Some of the stories I read are pretty bad. I’ve had boats for many years with the same boatyard and mechanics. Motor boats and have a great relationship with my mechanic. However I don’t powerboat to marinas I’ve never been to very often. So big difference, I understand. Seems like taking a big trip is a lot more than just surviving the ocean

Any recommendations on checklists. Basically what to look for and how to score to do a bit of a systematic process when looking at boats either with a broker or without. I’ve made up my own if anyone would like a copy. Not very complicated

Thanks!

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by JohnParkerSJ

Would love a little steerage here. Looking at 38+ monohulls and finding a pretty big range. Getting a price to upgrade and really mint a 1985+ 38+ sailboat isn’t easy. So many people involved. Electronics, hull/deck, engine, sails etc.
Looking at some great boats, some seem to need some serious TLC and some look amazing. Just beautiful! So I’m stuck with spending 50-80k for a 25yr+ older boat or something in the same age, but beautiful for 90-120k. Understand there is a big difference between a Hunter and an IP, but staying at the same level boat, I still question do I go a little beat up with need of electronics, sails and possible engine or pay upfront and take the cream puff. Love to hear how painful the overhaul would be or would that be the way to go?

Family of 4
2 small children
Marina with a pool
Flipped a few houses, but never a sailboat
Many years of owning larger motor boats and ready to move my summer home onto the water

Curious if anyone has gotten such information in a survey? Is there a marina with a broker that can do it all? Looking in the MD area near Grasonville.

So what will I be doing you ask? Sleeping overnight, enjoying a calm day on the Chesapeake and a once a year trip to the Bahamas. Have done the trip a few times by motor. Without the kids . But now would like to bring them.

Appreciate any insight or do i just flip a coin? And I won’t be doing the work. All professionals.

Plan to spend a little more upfront to get a boat in better condition. Previous owners with upgraded boats rarely see much ROI on the things they did to make the boat bristol. Any money you spend on a boat is for your enjoyment and should never be looked at as an investment to make the boat worth more. Relative to the cost of paying a pro to perform work, it's always cheaper to have the PO buy these things. All that said virtually every boat will need something.

[bensolomon]

Walk on the docks and observe the boats. See what appeals to your eye. Things to look for: where are the sail controls? Can you reach them from the helm, specifically trimming the main sheet and traveler? How easy is the boat to single hand? What is the visibility forward from the cockpit? How many winches and are they located where you can get to them while helming? Think about this as you will be the only one running the boat, and how it's laid out to facilitate that.

You have a family. Everybody will need their own spot. That puts you in the 3 cabin layout minimally. Look for reasonable tankage...water, waste, and fuel. Solar or wind power on board is a huge plus.

Personally, don't be concerned about the argument over which is a better brand. Most of the boats in your sights will do fine for you. Don't rush, and walk on many boats. One of them will speak to you. Then get a thorough survey.

Good luck!!!