California bans the sale of Denatured Alcohol

[Calif.Ted]

Often overlooked is the fact that the Federal government owns 45.8% of California, almost 46,000,000 acres. I don't think they'd let us secede because we'd be taking Yosemite, Big Sur etc. with us.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Massive thread drift. TLDR there is nothing to indicate that denatured alcohol has been "banned" in CA unless your political beliefs demand you believe it has been, at which point you're impervious to reason. Otherwise, for the rest of us it's available at a number of stores and by ordering online, although there are some spot shortages most probably caused by people who worked themselves into a frenzy over the supposed "ban" and made a run on their local hardware store.

Got you! it's a damn shame people believe whatever is politically correct left or right.

[AKA-None]

Oh and more thread drift. The internet existed long before http.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

Often overlooked is the fact that the Federal government owns 45.8% of California, almost 46,000,000 acres. I don't think they'd let us secede because we'd be taking Yosemite, Big Sur etc. with us.

Another reason the federal government won't let us secede is because our taxes prop up most of the rest of the country. California residents alone pay more federal taxes than the 25 lowest-paying states combined (based on 2019 information). That's mainly because of our population but we're about 6th highest in what we pay per capita as we don't have the highest wages.

[Don C L]

Try buying a house or even a condo on the current middle class income, or even 2 middle class incomes, in urban or suburban California... If I had to buy a place now I wouldn't be able to afford where I am! Developments are going up filled with million dollar homes, and I presume someone is buying them, but I don't know who.... But anyway, all those folks probably aren't buying too much denatured alcohol anyway! (to bring it back around)

[StuM]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Oh and more thread drift. The internet existed long before http.

Unfortunately, too many people think that "web" and "internet" are synonyms.

[newhaul]

The originations of the web were actually a U.S. military secure WAN. That eventually morphed into what we have now . The new rumor mill.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by newhaul

The originations of the web were actually a U.S. military secure WAN. That eventually morphed into what we have now . The new rumor mill.

As I said before, two different things.



The original of "the web" aka "World Wide Web", was the work done by Tim Berners-Lee.


The Internet evolved from work done by DARPA


"World Wide Web" is not the same as "Internet" any more that the Greyhound Bus Service is the same as the US Road Network.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by StuM

As I said before, two different things.



The original of "the web" aka "World Wide Web", was the work done by Tim Berners-Lee.


The Internet evolved from work done by DARPA


"World Wide Web" is not the same as "Internet" any more that the Greyhound Bus Service is the same as the US Road Network.

yes the internet is the roads the web ( modern rumor mill ) is the bus line

[senormechanico]

When will this thread drift go to (name your favorite taboo subject)?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

When will this thread drift go to (name your favorite taboo subject)?

mono vs cat vs tri. Which is better in a hurricane?????

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by newhaul

mono vs cat vs tri. Which is better in a hurricane?????

None of these. Only a quadramaran with an articulated joint structure and a concrete ballast keel in the third aka will keep you safe in a hurricane. Anything else is just suicide. Spread the word.

[Belezar]

The foie gras was BS. But this - waaah!

[TrentePieds]

Why would you burn DENATURED alcohol in a spirit burner? Are we perhaps confronted here with yet another instance of terminological inexactitood?

Denatured alcohol is ETHANOL as distinct from METHANOL. Ethanol, which is the basis of vodka, akvavit and whiskey, however you may spell it - even "bourbon"- is produced by FERMENTING the sugars in cereal grains, in your neckathewoods principally from that second-rate but super-abundant cereal known by default as "corn". After fermentation, which will stop at 14 or 15 percent ethanol by volume of the wort/mast, the ethanol may be concentrated by distillation, but it remains a sugar derivative.

Good, wholesome ethanol produced by fermentation of the sugars in barley or in grapes (and thereafter possibly concentrated by distillation) may be DENATURED by the addition of noxious chemicals that make it unfit for drinking because they make you vomit. This is done lest thee and me should circumvent the taxes imposed on potable alcohol. Since METHANOL is highly toxic, it is a favourite agent for denaturing ethanol.

Ethanol, distilled to something like 98% ethanol by volume, is also known as "surgical alcohol" or "rubbing alcohol". It is merely a very powerful vodka. Try drinking it neat. You won't like it, and its very strength will have you calling for Ralph before you know!

METHANOL is distilled from WOOD PULP by destructive distillation of the pulp and is highly toxic. There is NO fermentation of sugar involved. If you survive drinking a little, and you persist, the stuff will blind you before it kills you, I'm told. But it burns just fine. The stuff is also known as "Methyl alcohol" or "wood spirit" or (in my youth in a universe far away and long ago) as "radiator spirit" because it was used as anti-freeze in Model "A" Fords and suchlike.

Methanol has 1 carbon in its molecule, ethanol has 2 and isopopyl alcohol has 3. Isopropyl alcohol is not chemically the same as ethanol but is also used for "surgical" or "rubbing" alcohol. Since flammability goes down with increasing carbon content (because volatility also goes down with increasing carbon content), methanol is the stuff to use in a spirit burner.

Even in California methanol should be available at places like Sherwin Williams as "lacquer thinner" or simply as "mineral spirits". Nothing to do with "denatured alcohol" whatsoever :-)!

TrentePieds

[Dsanduril]

"Mineral Spirits", at least as defined in the US are a petroleum distillate and have nothing to do with either ethanol or methanol.

Mineral spirits are a type of chemical substance that is a liquid hydrocarbon solvent mixture of aliphatic and alicyclic petroleum-based compounds. Mineral spirits are used as a key ingredient in paint and varnish products used to coat metal surfaces to prevent corrosion.

From a regulatory standpoint

Since flammability goes down with increasing carbon content (because volatility also goes down with increasing carbon content), methanol is the stuff to use in a spirit burner.

the extra volatility of methanol makes it more likely to be regulated. Also, ethanol provides a slightly hotter flame (about 50C out of nearly 2000C, so not a huge difference). Both are used as stove fuel. As fuel in California they are referred to (in pure form) as M-100 (100% methanol, which is actually regulated to be >97%) and E-100 (100% ethanol, with the same "broad" definition of 100%).

However, methanol only has 8600 BTU/lb vs. 11500 BTU/lb for ethanol, so ethanol, in the form of denatured alcohol lasts longer as a fuel (has a higher heat density).