California communities suing for polluters to pay for storm damage

[newhaul]

Climate Crisis, Inc. has become a $1.5 trillion industry
Here is an oldie but goodie .

[Exile]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Uhu, look at any US news outlet and you get one view, read the (truly liberal? left wing? progressive?) overseas news outlets (Guardian, Greenpeace) and you get the exact opposite: I wonder who is most gullible here - we all seem to quote from news media - the absolute worst possible source of information on SCIENCE!!! Remember, everyone has an agenda.

Very true, but not everyone recognizes these agendas and the bias they produce. You may want to go one step further and check the indpt. sources the NYT cites to substantiate its claim that China is exporting its coal plants to other countries which will result in a huge increase in coal emissions worldwide. I'm no longer a fan of the NYT generally, but recognize that it's always good to read sources that might have a slant that's not to my liking. Otherwise your opinion just gets ratified again & again and you can lose the plot.

I also checked the Guardian and Greenpeace sites and, not surprisingly, found echoes of your initial statement that China was cutting back on coal, with the implication they were doing so out of concern over climate change. It appears to be more about overcapacity & water issues, according to the sources you apparently favor.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...gy-china-india

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/201...val-fall-2016/

And here's Greenpeace's rebuttal to the NYT piece. You tell me if it sounds agenda-driven or "objective":

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/201...n-coal-plants/

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

,,,

I suppose in your mystical magical Mr. Musk Land, everyone will be able to afford a Tesla, power wall and solar roof tiles? Will the money for all this also magically come out of the wall socket?

I'm unhappy being required to subsidize people buying electric cars. If they are such a great idea, they should be able to sell on their own.

[bgallinger]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Climate Crisis, Inc. has become a $1.5 trillion industry
Here is an oldie but goodie .

Newhaul...thanks for that. Now it all makes sense, and I'm more frightened than ever. Reminds me of that old expression..."Too big to fail"

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Climate Crisis, Inc. has become a $1.5 trillion industry
Here is an oldie but goodie .

That is a freaking blog.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

That is a freaking blog.

I know that but it still makes some interesting and very valid points. Google for more I'm guaranteeing you will find that following the money always eventually shows the truth .

[DeepFrz]

I'm not sure what your point is Exile. You seem to be all over the place.

Originally Posted by Exile

Very true, but not everyone recognizes these agendas and the bias they produce. You may want to go one step further and check the indpt. sources the NYT cites to substantiate its claim that China is exporting its coal plants to other countries which will result in a huge increase in coal emissions worldwide. I'm no longer a fan of the NYT generally, but recognize that it's always good to read sources that might have a slant that's not to my liking. Otherwise your opinion just gets ratified again & again and you can lose the plot.

I also checked the Guardian and Greenpeace sites and, not surprisingly, found echoes of your initial statement that China was cutting back on coal, with the implication they were doing so out of concern over climate change. It appears to be more about overcapacity & water issues, according to the sources you apparently favor.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...gy-china-india
Coal in 'freefall' as new power plants dive by two-thirds
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/201...val-fall-2016/
China coal power plant approvals fall by 85%
And here's Greenpeace's rebuttal to the NYT piece. You tell me if it sounds agenda-driven or "objective":

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/201...n-coal-plants/
But though the article focuses on overseas projects, 80% of the plants which make up the data are actually in China itself — and, as a recent Greenpeace report shows, the majority of those planned plants may not go ahead.

China signed the Paris Accord and they are working hard to live up to their commitment. Not like an other country we know of. Mostly the reasons they are able to cut back on coal fired plants is because of a HUGE investment in solar energy. It is interesting that in one large array of solar panels they include one panel that a certain president had removed from the white house roof.

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I'm unhappy being required to subsidize people buying electric cars. If they are such a great idea, they should be able to sell on their own.

You don't seem to mind subsidizing the fossil fuel industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

Canada’s Fossil Fuel Subsidies. Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)

G20 countries spend $450B a year on fossil fuel subsidies, study says - Politics - CBC News

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...www.google.ca/

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I'm not sure what your point is Exile. You seem to be all over the place.

. It is interesting that in one large array of solar panels they include one panel that a certain president had removed from the white house roof.

And you actuality have verifiable proof of this claim?
Or just political retoric from outside the USA?

[DeepFrz]

Oh, and my favorite craw sticker.
Legacy of liabilities | National Observer

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by newhaul

And you actuality have verifiable proof of this claim?
Or just political retoric from outside the USA?

Well, I guess it could be another "alternative fact" but I tend to believe it because it came from a respected source...the founder of the company.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

And I suppose in your magical land land of Mr Musk, there will only be sunny days? No cloudy, rainy or snowy days allowed... the sun will always shine down upon the magical solar panels to power the mystical "power wall."

It's hard to imagine people actually believe this stuff being a long time owner/user of two large solar arrays to power a home and business and now a Solbian powered boat. Good luck getting to work in a Tesla during a rainy week in Cali.

I suppose in your mystical magical Mr. Musk Land, everyone will be able to afford a Tesla, power wall and solar roof tiles? Will the money for all this also magically come out of the wall socket?

If I understand the batteries are sized for a couple days of load. You're still grid-tied for those cloudy periods which are real and do happen.

The cost of the Tesla - nope I'm not paying for yours and you aren't paying for mine. Maybe one of us will be driving an older Nissan Leaf and that's ok.

We already spend plenty of money on power generation here in the States. It'll just move closer to home, less govt involvement and more reliable.

Remember that hypothetical couple in Puerto Rico? So glad they got their powerwall installed. If I was living there now I'd be fighting to get a powerwall installed. Anyone with money in PR will want to that immediately. It isn't even about the 2018 hurrricane season -- it is about he next 6 months !!

Who has time for gas lines?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Well, I guess it could be another "alternative fact" but I tend to believe it because it came from a respected source...the founder of the company.

Citations please. without proof it is just more retoric.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I'm unhappy being required to subsidize people buying electric cars. If they are such a great idea, they should be able to sell on their own.

Completely agree. We might not agree on this next point but IMO it was okay for govt to "prime the pump" initially (pun intended), especially Georgia state legislature, but that is no longer necessary.

Every new car wants more torque and less maintenance cost and headache...

[DeepFrz]

For those interested in "alternative views" that some of you feel its good to read here is a link to an article that may put some things in perspective for you.

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/11/...gy-capitalism/