California communities suing for polluters to pay for storm damage

[Exile]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I'm not sure what your point is Exile. You seem to be all over the place.


China signed the Paris Accord and they are working hard to live up to their commitment. Not like an other country we know of. Mostly the reasons they are able to cut back on coal fired plants is because of a HUGE investment in solar energy. It is interesting that in one large array of solar panels they include one panel that a certain president had removed from the white house roof.

Your confusion is understandable as you only seem to regurgitate articles which gybe with your views and ignore the rest. Let's try a couple of facts vs. assumptions that appear to be indisputable:

1. China remains the #1 emitter of carbon & other pollutants, in large part due to using coal to produce electricity;

2. The U.S. is #2 but by half that of China, in large part due to fracking and the substitution of natural gas vs. coal to produce electricity;

3. Both countries, like many around the world, have made significant investments in renewable energy but those investments make up a small fraction of their total energy needs & consumption;

4. You have no idea whether China is "working hard to live up to their commitment" under the Paris accords or whether their "HUGE investment in solar energy" has anything to do with that "commitment," because China has a totalitarian, communist govt. which controls information released through its state controlled media.

Btw, unsubstantiated and emotional insults directed towards the leadership & institutions of another poster's country are not polite. Surely there's a more productive and thus more persuasive way for you to get your points across that don't just blindly follow the "party line."

[Exile]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

For those interested in "alternative views" that some of you feel its good to read here is a link to an article that may put some things in perspective for you.

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/11/...gy-capitalism/

Well, at least you correctly labeled it alternative "views" as opposed to alternative "facts"! A worthwhile read to help some of us understand where others get their radical perspectives.

[DeepFrz]

LOL - Yep, the article nailed it. Anyway, I've had enough of this and am outta here.

[Cottontop]

There are lots of greedy folks out there trying to get their hands on other people's money.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

I'm going to figure out everyone that has a bigger carbon footprint than I do (I'm certain there are a few, Al Gore and Hollywood celebrities come to mind), and sue them.

[Catalysis]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Seems California does real well on electrical consumption, not so much on gasoline though?
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...c02-story.html

One reason California uses less electricity is low humidity and, in large population areas, fairly mild climate. Those air cons gobble up power.

[zeehag]

throwing money at politicians for alleged climate change reversal is fools errand and only makes politicians rich off your idiocy. sorry fact.
climate constantly changes.
there is so much crap on both sides of the alleged scientific based on algores nonscientific politically and financially motivated scam yes scam the sheeple following find difficulty in believing they are incorrect and their info was faked.
on the other hand there are so many who verbalize opposition to the algore scam without backing with info.
unfortunately both sides ignore the monetary motivation involved which is what the great majority are in accord with. money aint gonna stop anything. money increases oppression by taxation. take money out of equation as did tromp, and then research well, remember the center of planet is impressively hot and molten. there are many physics and other sciences involved in a proper evaluation of the issues you both sides fight about and both sides are wrong as a result of this fact.
y'all are most entertaining.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Let me share a great Story from California.

Wanting to be Green and realizing that the cash purchase of a roof full of solar panels wasn't going to happen for pure economic reasons without a Government program, the geniuses in California State and Local Governments colluding with the Sellers and Installers of residential solar panel systems hatched a great idea. The program would let you have solar installed on your house with no money down and the payments for the solar would just be added to your house property tax payment Bill. Bingo....so California goes green, citizens get a lower utility bill and the world is saved from the evils of MMGW.

Fast forward a few years and then disaster hits.
When these Citizens enticed into installing solar systems for no money down try to sell their houses they find out that their $300,000 houses can't sell because it has a $50,000 property tax lean for the solar panels. The New buyers can't get a loan for $350,000 from the bank on a $300,000 house and the sellers don't have the cash (even after the sell of the house) to pay off the $50,000 solar system sitting on the roof that saved the world. Thousands...upon Thousands of Homes in California are now in this Trap. Sale after residential sale was being crushed, stopped and people were/are literally trapped into their home under the shade of their solar system.

The Local and State real estate agents were the first to panic and start sounding the alarm after sales were crumbling. Now the Local and State Government that pushed this scam have cancelled it and realize that the only ones to make out well are the Solar panel sellers/installers that of course since it was FREE money with no cash down elevated the projects way beyond actual cash value. No one would be surprised to learn that the solar panel pushers/Installers were "Huge" campaign contributors to guess who...the politicians that enacted this "Green Program".

This tale of woe doesn't even take into account all those suckers out there that bought their solar on a Solar Lease that will have to either be paid off at the time of property sale OR assumed by the new buyer (at the same top heavy cost structure keeping most banks from writing the home mortgage).

MMGW is the latest Bran Muffin, Gluten marketing Fad used by Governments to raise money and gain control over your lives. Sorry Amigas...a scam is a scam even if you have good intentions in it and you think it will save the baby polar bears (which were never under threat anyway)

[zeehag]

what rich boren said. yes.
if going solar do it yourself . i saw the shingles being purchased for use in mexican housing back in 2001 in san diego. yup do it yourself.

what i wanna know, and it itches my brain in the most annoying manner, is~~~(drum roll please)
when the biiiiig earthquake hits cali damaging both sf and la as well as tickling richie rich sin diego, who the hell are the californikators going to sue for causing the quake???!!!~~~~~~~~~
and will the quaking be blamed on global warming and who gets sued for that.~~~~
shake rattle and roll, baby. surf that sidewalk and donot stay in any tall buildings.

something gotta be happening soon as mexico has 2 tectonic plates and a san andreas actively playing with added volcanic changes.
as bye bye californikasha is spozed to happen in about a million years, mebbe we should not yet hold our breath.
chikkin little would look better in the crock pot than running around wringing hands. makes more sense as well. just dont park your mobile home on the damned beach in a storm area and donot build permanent edifices in a flood plain or caldera. mazatlan builds permanence in lagoons.. oopsy....
i remember my chemical engineer dad checking for that and more with my mechanical engineer grandpoppa when we were kids.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

You don't seem to mind subsidizing the fossil fuel industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies



Canadaâ€[emoji769]s Fossil Fuel Subsidies. Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)



G20 countries spend $450B a year on fossil fuel subsidies, study says - Politics - CBC News



https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...www.google.ca/

And let's add in oh about 25% of the DoD budget which goes to international petroleum security & shipping security. Pick your exact percentage but that security cost needs to be charged back to the businesses that benefit from it. Call it $175 billion a year.

No soldier wants to die defending your "right" to conflict gas.

How about a "domestic content" sticker on the gas pumps?

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

You don't seem to mind subsidizing the fossil fuel industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies

Canada’s Fossil Fuel Subsidies. Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ's)

G20 countries spend $450B a year on fossil fuel subsidies, study says - Politics - CBC News

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...www.google.ca/

These studies go many bridges too far and have little credibility. For instance,

- payments to Black Lung victims are free from income tax. That is a "subsidy" to the coal industry.
- subsidies to poor people for fuel oil payments are a subsidy of the oil industry.
- the difference in tax rates between countries that tax the oil industry more heavily than the US amounts to a subsidy of the US industry.
- many years ago the US reduced lease and royalty rates for deepwater Gulf of Mexico tracts to encourage development. That the US has not reneged on those deals on productive tracts is a subsidy.

Etc.

I do care about the endless wars defending Saudi Arabia, so I drive a Volt and encourage everyone else to do the same.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Let me share a great Story from California.

Fast forward a few years and then disaster hits.
When these Citizens enticed into installing solar systems for no money down try to sell their houses they find out that their $300,000 houses can't sell because it has a $50,000 property tax lean for the solar panels. The New buyers can't get a loan for $350,000 from the bank on a $300,000 house and the sellers don't have the cash (even after the sell of the house) to pay off the $50,000 solar system sitting on the roof that saved the world. Thousands...upon Thousands of Homes in California are now in this Trap. Sale after residential sale was being crushed, stopped and people were/are literally trapped into their home under the shade of their solar system.

The Local and State real estate agents were the first to panic and start sounding the alarm after sales were crumbling. Now the Local and State Government that pushed this scam have cancelled it and realize that the only ones to make out well are the Solar panel sellers/installers that of course since it was FREE money with no cash down elevated the projects way beyond actual cash value. No one would be surprised to learn that the solar panel pushers/Installers were "Huge" campaign contributors to guess who...the politicians that enacted this "Green Program".

Walk me through the scenario again but put the house in Puerto Rico. I'm making this up but I suspect that a solar equipped house in Fajardo commands a $75,000 cash premium this week, no?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Exile

... it's always good to read sources that might have a slant that's not to my liking. Otherwise your opinion just gets ratified again & again and you can lose the plot....

We agree on that at least. And thanks for tracking down those links. We might also agree there is huge disparity between various sources, making it important to ask ourselves about motives, politics, propaganda; are we being treated as sheep, or goats? Are we happy to believe what suits our viewpoint, and ignore or disparage what doesn't?

Certainly seems to be the case from this thread - everyone (me included) seems totally entrenched in their views.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

Walk me through the scenario again but put the house in Puerto Rico. I'm making this up but I suspect that a solar equipped house in Fajardo commands a $75,000 cash premium this week, no?

Attachment 156555

You're forgetting about the fact that the panels would have blown off the roof when the rest of the house was demolished by the storm. No solar installation in the Americas is waranteed to withstand 155mph winds.

[a64pilot]

If your in a area at risk from major storms, your much better off with a generator and a large Propane tank, or Diesel. Just propane will store indefinitely I think.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If we are to assume that this years higher than average number of Hurricanes in the US is due to anything.
How do we explain the preceding twelve years of lower than average?

BINGO !