California communities suing for polluters to pay for storm damage

[Exile]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

As far as SUV's vs Prius and or others like it not reducing fuel consumption. It's my belief that it would cut it by at least half, and that is I believe a conservative estimate.

It's about 392 Million gallons per day, every day. That is not a drop in the bucket.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=23&t=10

Your link says that 392M gals/day gas consumption in the US in 2016 is the total number, i.e. not related to any savings estimates from a reduction of SUV's, etc. on American roads. I know you meant that but when I first read your post I interpreted it otherwise.

But your point may be well taken, and I may have understated the significance of such savings. It would be interesting to see some stats on this, although perhaps hard to find unbiased sources.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by brantleychuck

" average ocean temps are hard to fake". I did a bit of research on how average ocean temps are arrived at. It looks to me like a giant guessing game with endless variables to guess about. To me , if one had a agenda or belief, very to fudge the numbers

Very easy to fudge the numbers I think you are saying?

Ok. Let's break that down by starting from the source data.

Do you agree that the sea temp off Charleston station 41004 is 81.3 degrees? Do you believe it to be a different number?

[brantleychuck]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

Very easy to fudge the numbers I think you are saying?

Ok. Let's break that down by starting from the source data.

Do you agree that the sea temp off Charleston station 41004 is 81.3 degrees? Do you believe it to be a different number?


Attachment 156654

Pretty easy to take the temp of sea water at what ever location you want, and I would believe that number. As I recall that was the starting point. Then they modified that number based on estimated cloud cover, wind speed, etc. Do not recall what the current sea temp rise is but it is very small, a couple of degrees? World wide? Scientist rarely set out to prove there hypotheses wrong, so strong motivation to bump the numbers there way. Hard to believe? Not really, this is what humans do.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by brantleychuck

Scientist rarely set out to prove there hypotheses wrong, so strong motivation to bump the numbers there way. Hard to believe? Not really, this is what humans do.

I'm aware of the possible rabies outbreak within climate science. Started someplace in Georgia as I understand it. I've been getting updates on Sunday evenings from a guy named Grimes...

Seriously if the basic bouy source data is right then the majority of individual bouys would also register a corresponding increase. I know you and I haven't checked that data set but it'd be hard to spoof. A couple degrees will bump up hurricane strength and frequency, extend the season, on and on until we are Barbudaed.

A scientist who disproved the ocean temp finding under peer review would be widely published and make a name for herself. If it's really important then it is really important to work from facts.

September 10th was the unofficial midpoint of this season.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by daletournier

What i find quite amazing is Tesla has a market cap similar to GM yet Tesla sells under 10,000 cars a year (at a loss i should add) and GM sells hundreds of thousands.

My point is musk is the worlds greatest saleman, he mananges to get billions of dollars invested into his company , from individuals and the government yet fails to make a profit EVER! Prior to "bubble world" only companies that made profit stayed around!

Im just envious, wish i was this good.

Don't we all. Safe to say his investors don't suffer from SQM (small quarterly mind).

If his investors are correct and, over time, Mr Musk ends up with market leader in electric cars, half the country's power generation & storage, half the airlines business (26 minutes center city Philly to center city NYC, no cabs, no boarding circus, sounds about right to me) he will do alright.

San Diego-AZ-Corpus Christi hyperloop that can move a TEU in 3 hours will eventually displace the Panama Canal. Add half the canal zone turnover to his revenue stream to boot.

So far he's executing on each item. Time will tell.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

So far he's executing on each item.

By "executing," do you mean the marketing, i.e. securing taxpayer subsidies for each item? Otherwise we might need to call on Kenomac & his unicorn.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by brantleychuck

Pretty easy to take the temp of sea water at what ever location you want, and I would believe that number.

There is indeed some controversy over adjustments made to historical ocean temperature measurements. Over the years, these measurements have been made using various techniques, including buoy instruments, ship engine-cooling water intakes, and throwing a bucket over the side of a ship and using a thermometer to measure the water temperature. Each of these methods introduces systematic errors and inaccuracies, and the methods that the NOAA uses to compensate for these deviations has raised some concerns.

Here is one discussion of the issue, from a "denier" blog: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/...-bucket-model/
Here's an article that supports the NOAA adjustments: https://www.carbonbrief.org/explaine...rature-records

It doesn't take much searching to discover that taking the temperature of the sea over a long period of time can get pretty complicated.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

...
Here is one discussion of the issue, from a "denier" blog: "https://...
Here's an article that supports the NOAA adjustments: "https://www....

And never the twain shall meet.

I guess we either trust 97% of climate scientists, or else we trust the 3% employed by big oil.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

And never the twain shall meet.

I guess we either trust 97% of climate scientists, or else we trust the 3% employed by big oil.

Can you back that statement with citations?

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

There is indeed some controversy over adjustments made to historical ocean temperature measurements. Over the years, these measurements have been made using various techniques, including buoy instruments, ship engine-cooling water intakes, and throwing a bucket over the side of a ship and using a thermometer to measure the water temperature. Each of these methods introduces systematic errors and inaccuracies, and the methods that the NOAA uses to compensate for these deviations has raised some concerns.

Here is one discussion of the issue, from a "denier" blog: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/...-bucket-model/
Here's an article that supports the NOAA adjustments: https://www.carbonbrief.org/explaine...rature-records

It doesn't take much searching to discover that taking the temperature of the sea over a long period of time can get pretty complicated.

Ditto on how to take measurements of rising seas. Perhaps even more controversial since there are even more variables. Islands and even continents rise & fall based on natural factors. But with all of these scientific measurements reported in the media or cited by politicians (or posters on forum threads) as evidence of MMGW, it seems rare when you see an explanation of why the indicators don't simply indicate a natural warming cycle. In other words, all too often it seems the MM part of MMGW is missing. There are some who claim that we would should be in a natural cooling cycle right now and MMGW is therefore 100% responsible for the warming, but I think that's a minority of scientific views.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

And never the twain shall meet.

I guess we either trust 97% of climate scientists, or else we trust the 3% employed by big oil.

You may want to start reading some of the many materials that explain why these oft-cited stats are deceptive if not outright false. Along the way you'll likely discover that some of the most highly credentialed skeptics from the scientific community have nothing to do with "big oil," and why many believe that the mainstream science community has been corrupted by govt money that far exceeds whatever "big oil" is contributing to the other side.

I don't expect you to change your opinion, but you may be better informed why the arguments you're putting forth only sound persuasive to the choir.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Can you back that statement with citations?

NASA (US):
Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources. .....

Anyone care to argue with NASA???

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

NASA (US):
Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position. The following is a partial list of these organizations, along with links to their published statements and a selection of related resources. .....

Anyone care to argue with NASA???

Old press release from a politically motivated government agency are not currently peer reviewed citations.

And FYI no I don't accept statements from a government agency.

[SV THIRD DAY]

4 out of 5 Dentists Surveyed Recommend Crest Toothpaste.
It's not a lie...and it's about as useful a statement as 97% of Scientists believe the MMGWH (Man Made Global Warming Hoax).

Might as well have all the scientists take a Knee during the national anthem and have El Trumpo call for their firing...

Better Exile?

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Old press release from a politically motivated government agency are not currently peer reviewed citations...

Okay, quote a peer reviewed paper, published in a reputable scientific journal, disputing NASA's (and their multitude of US and overseas agencies') findings.