California communities suing for polluters to pay for storm damage

[a64pilot]

My point is pretty simple, it's not whether there is Global warming or not.
However what are we to do about it?
It would seem pretty simple to me, you start using less and less fossil fuels?
So what happened to CAFE standards? Why are pickup trucks and full size SUV's exempt?

We are where we are, because the majority of the population wants to be here. Here being where we are burning so much fossil fuel.

Buying carbon credits from Al Gore and the rest of that nonsense is only going to make Al Gore rich, it's not going to actually reduce fossil fuel use.
Re-instating CAFE standards and other similar actions, would. But the general public doesn't want that.

The funny thing is while these threads come up very often on this Forum, as a group I believe we contribute less to the burning of fossil fuels than most other segments of the population. I'd bet the average cruiser burns less fuel per year than the average Californian does in two months.

[Kenomac]

Not to worry, happy days will soon be here again...

[a64pilot]

Apparently on average the average Californian burn 681 gallons of gas yearly.
https://alankandel.scienceblog.com/2...ional-average/

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ok I'm going to drop out of this thread now before I get banned again....or worse yet, like what happened last time on one of these MMGW Threads, someone sent a note to my business partner asking if he knew how crazy I was in an attempt to get me in some type of "trouble" (A) no I'm not joking and (B) my business partner of course already knows, which could be why he supports me moving back to Mexico!

That story is more than a little creepy.

Unfortunately, the World doesn't like a Truth Teller these days, they would rather live in Darkness dancing around the fire and making burnt offerings to the MMGWC. There is nothing new under the sun.

What's even creepier is that much of the world doesn't like debating truth tellers, or those with different opinions I should say. "Hate speech" & "denier" are terms which all too often attempt to associate speech someone personally doesn't like by impugning the character of the person holding contrary views. Both are an attempt to suppress debate and therefore do nothing to advance understanding. In other words, they prefer you to drop out of the thread by calling you "crazy" or trying to hurt your business (good luck with that!) rather than having to read views which challenge theirs. Really pretty pathetic given our founding principles as a country and a people.

[SV THIRD DAY]

It's like the hysteria over the US Pulling out of the Paris Climate Deal.
But what did the Paris Climate Deal do for Global Warming...0.002 degs C folks. In other words Billions and Billions of dollars of wealth transferred for a 0.002Decs C decrease in global Temps. In other words....NADA. That's what's so hilarious....because the way the Media and MMGWCs were carrying on you would have though the Paris Climate Deal actually did something besides move the money around to those deemed more worthy of it....once again...follow the money.

The Corporation that sell Oil are believed to lie and be evil.
Yet the Corporations that raise money and "awareness" for Climate Change are believed to be pure and clean as the wind driven show...opps...the snow is melting.....and I'm outta here before notes to my mom start!

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Exile

What's even creepier is that much of the world doesn't like debating truth tellers, or those with different opinions I should say. "Hate speech" & "denier" are terms which all too often attempt to associate speech someone personally doesn't like by impugning the character of the person holding contrary views. Both are an attempt to suppress debate and therefore do nothing to advance understanding. In other words, they prefer you to drop out of the thread by calling you "crazy" or trying to hurt your business (good luck with that!) rather than having to read views which challenge theirs. Really pretty pathetic given our founding principles as a country and a people.

I guess you haven't been reading the whole thread Exile. Could you point me to some factual evidence that supports your views on climate change?

Rich, are you ignoring the views of your own military leaders? Could you point me to some factual evidence that you are using to support your views?

I think writing your partners was abhorrent but what are their names and addresses? Just kidding...

Of course I don't claim that those storms were CAUSED by human caused climate change, only that science has been predicting the increase in size of these storms aided by sea level rise and global warming. The destruction we have witnessed the past few weeks in our hemisphere and the destruction we have witnessed in other parts of the world over the past several years seem to point in that direction. Floods, droughts, forest fires, beach erosion, mass exodus and population displacement all were predicted by science and studied by the military s around the world. And hey, that is all happening. Right now. Right before our very eyes.

[a64pilot]

If we are to assume that this years higher than average number of Hurricanes in the US is due to anything.
How do we explain the preceding twelve years of lower than average?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I guess you haven't been reading the whole thread Exile. Could you point me to some factual evidence that supports your views on climate change?

Rich, are you ignoring the views of your own military leaders? Could you point me to some factual evidence that you are using to support your views?

I think writing your partners was abhorrent but what are their names and addresses? Just kidding...

Of course I don't claim that those storms were CAUSED by human caused climate change, only that science has been predicting the increase in size of these storms aided by sea level rise and global warming. The destruction we have witnessed the past few weeks in our hemisphere and the destruction we have witnessed in other parts of the world over the past several years seem to point in that direction. Floods, droughts, forest fires, beach erosion, mass exodus and population displacement all were predicted by science and studied by the military s around the world. And hey, that is all happening. Right now. Right before our very eyes.

Sahara desert pictures from early 2017. Just six months ago.... how quickly some forget.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Exile, I'm not ignoring anything. You mention beach erosion and loss of a few boats. Are you ignoring the loss of lives and homes and jobs that we have witnessed in just the past few weeks? The utter destruction of countries, of people who will be living without power, clean water and without the ability to rebuild? By mentioning beach erosion and loss of a few boats you belittle the poor people who are suffering huge losses and disruptions to their lives. The millions of people around the world who have been and continue to be displaced from their home and home lands. The many thousands of people (if not millions) that have been affected by super storms in other parts of the world.

I mentioned beach erosion & boat losses because this seemed to be the principal damages cited by the "lawsuit" that was the basis of your thread starter. You are appealing purely to emotion by making huge assumptions about the link btwn. MMGW and these so-called "super storms." You might want to start, for e.g., by explaining why the Carib & US e. coasts have had relative calm the past 10-12 years despite the predictions, and why supposedly the biggest storms on record occurred early in the last century.

I have seen first hand, in my 75 years, the environmental destruction caused by the fossil fuel industry by reckless and greedy corporate overreach. Have you? I have read reports of government health officers being sued and harassed for speaking up about the health costs of fossil fuel extraction. I see the destruction caused by fracking and other misuses of corporate power and greed. I laugh at Rich's statement that the US is governed by the rule of law.

I don't doubt some of the examples you cite, except there doesn't seem to be much evidence (as of yet) about the harmful impacts of fracking. And again you ignore the fact that, by any measure, the US has led the world in reducing the rate of its carbon emissions by all the cheap natural gas that has been uncovered by fracking. Maybe not the answer in the long run, but an undeniably positive development for the environment until cleaner sources of energy become more viable.

I find it quite amazing that so many Americans, in particular, scoff at AGW when their own military ranks it as the highest security risk in the world. Second, maybe, only to the enemy within.

The highest security risk in the world when the military was run by Obama ideologues perhaps! There's a more pragmatic bunch in there now who I suspect are spending more of their time worrying about N. Korea, Iran, China & Russia!

One needs to have a global perspective to really appreciate what is happening. Sticking one's head ... in the sand and ignoring the suffering in the world is just plain ignorance, IMHO. (maybe not so humble)

Nothing wrong with humility, especially when "solutions" to the "problems" you cite would result in devastating & disproportionate suffering to millions of poor people in the developing world.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Of course I don't claim that those storms were CAUSED by human caused climate change,

So what's the point of starting a thread which applauds a lawsuit that requires that EXACT level of proof??!

only that science has been predicting the increase in size of these storms aided by sea level rise and global warming.

Understood. But those same scientists have been predicting many other things as a result of GW which have not come to pass. There are many, much better understood scientific reasons for sea level rise and other phenomena which seem to be blindly attributed to MMGW.

The destruction we have witnessed the past few weeks in our hemisphere and the destruction we have witnessed in other parts of the world over the past several years seem to point in that direction.

Good luck making that argument in a court of law (even in Calif. ).

Floods, droughts, forest fires, beach erosion, mass exodus and population displacement all were predicted by science and studied by the military s around the world. And hey, that is all happening. Right now. Right before our very eyes.

All true, but meaningless unless compared to previous periods in history before mankind stated burning fossil fuels at modern levels, no? And don't you think Bashar Assad and ISIS may have had just a little to do with recent mass exodus & population displacement??

[DeepFrz]

a64pilot, you can assume anything you like. Just don't confuse your assumptions with facts.

[DeepFrz]

Just as an aside, I see there is a movement to get LA at least carbon neutral, if not carbon free, withing two decades. Someone seems to be doing something.

Anyway, the lawsuits are for the courts to decide.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

a64pilot, you can assume anything you like. Just don't confuse your assumptions with facts.

Those were "facts". Look them up yourself. I am sure the numbers will vary a little, but fact remains that Californians burn more fossil fuel than most of the rest of the US, per capita if that is the correct use of the word. By that I mean per person.
So it would seem the ones making the most noise, are the worst offenders?

Note, I'm not saying anything about Global warming, just use of fossil fuels, which in my ignorance is I believe one of the biggest sources of the gasses, that we can control.

[markpierce]

Meanwhile, snow fell in California on the last day of summer.

[NevisDog]

Look at the big picture. If I can use the phrase 'climate change doubters', surely no one will deny that the greatest number by far reside in the USA? The only plausible explanation for countries like Germany and China leading the way on alternative energy, while USA apparently drags its feet, drawing scorn from every other country, is the incredible concentration of climate deniers/doubters in that one part of the globe. And the only explanation I can come up with for that is that USA has been subjected to far, far more climate denial 'science' that the rest of us, because of your media laws requiring 'balance'.

If climate denial science turns out to be correct, no worries, the rest of the world will be electric and America can carry on spewing pollution. But if the other science turns out to be correct, despite the denials, which planet will we all inhabit then?

Maybe your leader has the perfect answer: just pick off those insignificant, annoying little states one by one and nuke 'em! Is that the plan for stopping climate refugees? It is certainly one option, just not one that I'm personally in favour of, but hey...