Common Objects to Defend Your Boat at Sea

[Nightsky]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I wonder if there is a panga fishing boat forum that has lots of threads about trying to trade a $100 fish for some matches or a beer to a cruising boat, but getting attacked with flares etc.

I personally find some cruisers plans of attack to be ludicrous and at best only ends up hurting themselves, and at worst turns a simple petty robbery into a life and death issue.

If only we could be assured it was only a simple, petty robbery. The macho in me would want to be armed and go down fighting. The realist in me knows it is unlikely to ever go down that way and most times it is simple fishermen trying to make a trade. Don't know the answer, but would feel even more foolish if I allowed myself to be taken hostage, or worse, if I had the means to effect a different outcome.

[Thumbs Up]

It was supposed to be a thread about common objects, not guns. A fire extingisher is a common object. Bop em on the head!

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by FastTrout

I wished the world matched your imagination

It doesn’t, stuff happens

In our travels by boat we went to 40+ countries all over the world and were not armed but miraculously (according to some) we survived. Only incidents that were worrying were two 40 miles or so off the coast of Ecuador and one in South Africa. The Ecuador ones were on consecutive days. In the first one a 20' panga came rushing up to us with four guys in it with cloth wrapped around their heads. Could have been pirates or could have been four guys out fishing in an open boat basically on the equator. They asked for water and we threw four plastic bottles to them and were thanked. The next late afternoon a similar boat rushed up to us. There problem was that they were afraid we would damage their net which was at the surface. They showed us where the end of the net was and we were happy to go around the end. Lots of smiles and waves.

In Durban, we had a bit of a lapse of situational awareness. Durban, like other very large SA cities is not very safe but we went to Christmas concert in the botanical garden given by the somewhat famous group, Ladysmith Black Mambazo. Took a cab there and assumed there would be cabs available afterward. Turned out not to be the case and it took us half an hour in the dark to find one. The uncertainty is the worry. You don't know if the area you are is dangerous or not.

I think that most of the people who want to go cruising but are worried about the bad guys probably should stay home where they will feel secure with their weaponry. Very few cruisers are armed and we knew about a couple of Americans who pitched their guns over the side because of the complications with dealing with them.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by FastTrout

the amount of people who carry pistols and have never practiced shooting through car windows is crazy

Seriously???

What range do you shoot at that allows "shooting through car windows"? Do they supply them or do you have to bring your own? How do you hold them up in front of the target? Is there a table or something that tells you how to angle a windshield per specific makes/models?

Over the years I've known score's of LEO's in multiple states, participated in LEO firearm training and tactics seminars; no one has ever "practiced shooting through car windows" or even mentioned such training.

Let's not get too carried away.



Whether afloat or on one's person, carrying a firearm is a individual decision. It is the responsibility of the individual to make sure they can do so safely, and comply with the local laws and regulations.



Remember the original premise the OP was suggestions for firearm alternatives.

[acem]

I've shot through an open vehicle window. Game and fish can't prosecute me now though, the statute of limitations has run out!

So what if you have an accidental discharge and shoot a hole through the floor (hull) of the boat?

Be aware that during a time of extreme stress your body goes into survival mode and adrenaline fills your veins. You loose fine motor skills and get tunnel vision, focusing on your perceived threat. If you are not well practiced with your weapon of choice you are likely to fail.

I'm not a cop but have been in tense situations. I've been able to resolve the situations without pulling my weapon on anyone.

Thx-Ace

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by acem

I've shot through an open vehicle window.

No, you shot 'from' an open vehicle window. (I'm also an unofficial grammar police officer )

[Thumbs Up]

People that carry guns and like guns and like to talk about guns are usually the ones that get caught up in some gun related drama. They attract more guns. Only guns that I've ever owned (besides flare guns and a bb gun) were nail guns. I can hold the safety back on a Senco or Porter Cable (even a harbor freight any nail gun that can shoot 16 penny clips). Turn the pressure up to 120 or 130 psi. And if they get close, Bop em on the head.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

People that carry guns and like guns and like to talk about guns are usually the ones that get caught up in some gun related drama. They attract more guns. Only guns that I've ever owned (besides flare guns and a bb gun) were nail guns. I can hold the safety back on a Senco or Porter Cable (even a harbor freight any nail gun that can shoot 16 penny clips). Turn the pressure up to 120 or 130 psi. And if they get close, Bop em on the head.

Well the argument has always been criminals are usually not lawful gun owners.

This NYT article is pretty interesting. It finds that gun ownership is linked to domestic homicides but not other crimes.

So I suppose let them have the guns. Just make sure your spouse is not one of them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/22/u...tatistics.html

[Jamme]

Speaking of common objects, how about trailing a couple of these in the water:

[StuM]

As usual, the thread has ended up as a gun v no gun thread despite the subject.


What a surprise (not)!


Time to put this one to bed too? No one is going to change anyone's mind.

[jimbunyard]

I always wonder about 'projection' from people who start threads like this...


As for 'shooting through window openings from inside a car', I have been inside a car when a 30-30 was inadvertantly fired.

The muzzle blast alone was debilitating for all inside (3 of us), and that was with a door open.


Think there're a lot of good examples of the primacy of 'TV education' here.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

I have been inside a car when a 30-30 was inadvertantly fired.

The muzzle blast alone was debilitating for all inside (3 of us), and that was with a door open.

It helps if you keep the muzzle outside the window opening...

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

I always wonder about 'projection' from people who start threads like this...


As for 'shooting through window openings from inside a car', I have been inside a car when a 30-30 was inadvertantly fired.

The muzzle blast alone was debilitating for all inside (3 of us), and that was with a door open.


Think there're a lot of good examples of the primacy of 'TV education' here.

Reminds me of a story from when I was a teenager.

We all have that one stupid accident prone friend right?

We were driving around in my friend’s car. I think five of us maybe six of us. We were throwing fireworks out the window. Lighting them and throwing them out while driving around.

Well, that accident prone stupid friend lit up a pack of jumping jacks. He went to toss them out the window, but he didn’t realize his window was half up. They hit the glass, bounced back in the car and completely went off all over inside of the car.

Other than being filled with smoke like a cheech and Chong movie, the car was completely destroyed. Those jumping jacks burned holes in all of the seats, the headliner of the ceiling, there were a little burn marks everywhere inside the car.

[33trippindaisy]

eh, what was that you said? I would say I hear ya brother, but my hearing is lets say a bit below normal at this point. I think it was that three months I spent as an Instructor for the ROTC Seniors doing their last summer before their real Army tour began. As one of the M-60 Machine Gun live fire Instructors, we fired an average of 50,000 rounds each day, and we had ten firing points on the Range we were at. I never wore ear plugs and still don't.....my choice, and you better believe I paid for it!

Yes to the OP asking about alternatives.......the answer is always the same, You can't just BOP them on the head dude, but you can hope you are lucky, you can hope it never happens to you (and it may not), you can always bring a filet knife to a gun fight too.........my question will always be "What do you tell your wife after they hurt her and she asks YOU why you didn't stop them"......that IS my answer and always will be. What happens to me for being prepared simply pales in comparison.........choices and consequences.......we can't hide from them folks.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by LobeliaBlue

Inhales, long slow sigh. Why can't I just drink water and mind my own business?

Because these topics are guns, guns, guns, and it's never the answer.
It's dumb and dangerous, and there is no such thing as a good guy with a gun.
There are fear-ridden egoists with poor socials skills in abundance, tho. Heh.

Seeing others as yourself is the best defense. Have I been mugged and stolen from?
Sure, a few times, but it was just stuff. Take the camera, the purse, let's not do violence.
I have some funny stories to tell instead of PTSD.

The person you are, is how the voyage goes. More than rights, you have a duty to harm no one.

How unfortunate that your perception of gun owners is so erroneously jaded. I suppose in many cases it's like the preconceived notion of power boaters, or maybe persons of color- no basis in fact, or even real experience, just something developed over time via the influence of others also without the benefits of experience.


No such thing as a good guy with a gun? My experiences are quite the opposite. I've had the benefit of experience to attend the Knob Creek Machinegun Shoot numerous times. And the folks I've met use unusual language like "Sir" and "please" and "Thank You." A thousand drivers vie for limited parking, yet I've never observed an argument, not even a claim that someone stole their spot. If a vehicle gets stuck in the mud plenty of people join in to push them out, muddy clothing be darned. Older machine gun dealers are treated with respect and reverence; the youth are embraced and get greatly discounted- even free- stuff. On numerous occasions I've watched buyers walk off with $10,000 worth of parts with no PO, not even an IOU- just a promise to send a check later. And with hundreds of machine gun dealers, and 5 million rounds fired on the range, nobody gets shot. Nobody gets robbed.



As compared to every other group with which I interface- sailors, power boaters, scientists, business executives, urban school administrators, etc- none come close to exhibiting the finest behavior as I've observed with gun owners. In other words, these aren't just "good guys with guns" these are GREAT neighbors, citizens, and friends with guns.


You and I differ on our perception of violent criminals and our responsibility to ourselves and family. I have never been successfully robbed. A hit to the knee ended that in Quito, a knife to the throat reminded the Tuk Tuk driver in Siam Reap which way the hotel was, a 7.62x51 SLR in Western Province Solomon Islands put an end to the robberies and shooting of valuable rain cisterns, and in USA simply brushing back a jacket gave the perps cause to cross the road and find another victim. I wish I had a crystal ball to determine which criminals, armed or otherwise, only want to relieve me and my family of valuables, and which intend to, or might be incited to, rape, stab or otherwise cause harm. Where can I get such wisdom?


In cruising, as with many other situations, how one carries one's self imparts a first impression that can deter criminal attacks. That is always preferable, because outcomes can never be predicted. Exuding an air of situational awareness is first and foremost; remove the possibility of surprise and many criminals will go elsewhere.



Of course, it has been rightfully stated that one can largely avoid problems by avoiding places. That's an individual choice, as I find that dangerous places offer some of the best experiences. During the civil war in Solomon Islands, for example, the average person struggled to survive economically and lawfully; it was at that time, at their lowest, that their best characteristics of compassion and caring came out...in the absence of the distractions of work, money, etc they had nothing to rely on but their own good being. Oddly enough, when life is at it's worst is when the best of people shines. So some can cruise to Sydney, and some to PNG, and it's a matter of personal risk that each decides for themselves.


But don't discredit one group because of preconceived and erroneous perceptions. There are good people in every place, in every group. By lumping an entire group into some negative category, one loses a fabulous opportunity to meet the finest persons.