Common Objects to Defend Your Boat at Sea

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Indeed, there always is one who cherry picks his data.

Sorry to get off topic, but EVERYONE cherry picks data.


I recently authored a scientific paper, and thanks to Google Images was able to find just the right map to support my hypothesis. I found a dozen more that did not. I did publish the cherry-picked map, but for transparency (well, actually for humor, taking a stab at "data") noted that I'd cherry picked it.


I love reading both ends of what many would call fringe news. Mainstream news (eg CNN and Fox) report the same crap from slightly different angles; but if one reads the ends of the spectrum a whole lot of details come out that mainstream ignore...lots of Ah Ha moments.


In my observation, "data" presented is just about useless any time there is ANY political motive involved. If there's a chance somebody can make money of that data, you know it's going to be junk data.

[jtsailjt]

I haven’t read this whole thread but am interested in using a paintball gun loaded with pepper spray balls rather than paint for boat defense. Does anyone know if these pepper balls that can be shot out of a paintball gun are legal and if so, where can you get them? I like that they are non lethal so you don’t have to be quite so hesitant to use them. Also, they don’t require great marksmanship from a moving platform, just a hit near enough to your target so he gets splattered with the pepper liquid. I have lots of guns at home and have had a concealed carry license until it became legal in my state to carry without a license, but in a boat that travels to other states and countries so many other considerations come into play that I leave all my guns behind. But I’d like to have some way to discourage attackers for long enough for me to make an escape.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I haven’t read this whole thread but am interested in using a paintball gun loaded with pepper spray balls rather than paint for boat defense. Does anyone know if these pepper balls that can be shot out of a paintball gun are legal and if so, where can you get them? I like that they are non lethal so you don’t have to be quite so hesitant to use them. Also, they don’t require great marksmanship from a moving platform, just a hit near enough to your target so he gets splattered with the pepper liquid. I have lots of guns at home and have had a concealed carry license until it became legal in my state to carry without a license, but in a boat that travels to other states and countries so many other considerations come into play that I leave all my guns behind. But I’d like to have some way to discourage attackers for long enough for me to make an escape.

Legality and usefulness depend on where and how you use it.



My opinion is that they are best left to law enforcement. If the situation is dangerous enough to warrant production of a gun-looking thing, you should be using a gun.


I'd not think to take one outside USA, or to NYC area. No way.


And if the bad guys see your "gun" they may up the game, and not with a paintball marker.


In most US jurisdictions, use in the maritime environment would violate dumping laws.

[sailorboy1]

I semi love threads like this just to see how crazy "rational" people can be in supporting their positions.

[Franziska]

Just as a side note, modern women are also quite capable to fight for themselves as well.
It's nice that you would want to defend her though.

I would never expect my boyfriend to go into harms way for myself. If we need to fight we will do as equal partners.
Still, we are not trusting into the power of guns anyway...

Originally Posted by 33trippindaisy

Originally Posted by 33trippindaisy View Post
my question will always be "What do you tell your wife after they hurt her and she asks YOU why you didn't stop them"......that IS my answer and always will be.

My question is: "You really think women are incapable of protecting themselves and need a man to do it?" Looks like that live-fire exercise with out hearing protection affected more than your hearing...

Thanks for the question, though I don't appreciate the little attack thats not necessary for a valid discusion. Hopefully you do not regularly insult those Veterans who volunteer to Serve and Protect you and all of our citizens. I identified myself as both a Veteran of the Military and of Law Enforcement and base my comments on actual life experiences. Maybe they are different than yours, but they do not warrant such vulgar snipes.

But lets look at the question you asked. I will use my own wife as an example of a woman who needs no man to "defend" her though my own chivalry would require my action non-the-less. In her case when needed.

My wife is a retired Police Officer with 90% of her time spent in the most undesired places and Districts in Little Rock, Arkansas. She was designated "Officer of the Year", County wide, as well as Officer of the Month a several occasions. Our Department had over 750 members so we were considered small by some and large by others. The violence in Little Rock earned itself a Documentary shown Nationwide on TV. It is certainly no joke, and can be like the OK Corral on occasion. She has shot 100% Expert on both Pistol and Riot Shotgun every time she has had to qualify, which is every quarter for our Department. I don't want her after me with a gun in any circumstance.

She is a small woman, roughly 5'4" and about 120 pounds. I have seen her execute handcuffing an unruly male suspect on three occasions (which I hated watching) and her deft and smooth execution of her takedown and cuffing amazed me. Lets say practice makes perfect.

Telling on myself, on one occasion before we were Police Officers and we very young we found ourselves in the middle of a bar room brawl. We headed for the door, but some woman jumped in front of her and grabbed her hair clearly ready to strike. The right hand to the nose my wife delivered would have made Mike Tyson smile. Surley this lady had no idea my wife's Dad was a career Green Beret soldier with no sons, just a little girl with a desire to protect her siblings, and a desire to understand fighting. When the mob allowed me out the doorway, the first thing I saw was my wife on the hood of a car, a bouncer punching her in the face, and her fighting like a wildcat. She tore off his shirt, kicked him in the gonads and kept fighting until the Police rolled in, which was mere seconds later.

I wished I could have helped her but it seemed like I was fighting six or seven people myself. We never found out "why" the fight started or who started it, but it was a mess. She held her own, despite a bloodied and messed up face and head she received in the battle. I knew right then I was married to a woman who would fight. 40 years later I still believe that.

This thread is interesting, as it shows us all to be different, both in perceptions and in beliefs. Thats okay for me. I don't poke fun at people for being different. My wife and I both grew up on military bases as our fathers were both career Military men. Maybe that bends us towards the idea of protecting others. Maybe thats why we both spent our entire adult lives in danger, preferring to be in danger to serve others. I do understand that many do not serve, nor do they ever have the calling to do so. Thats okay, we'll do it for you. Thats our job, and our Duty. We chose it willingly and proudly.

But again, back to the OP and the question.......I have enjoyed the thread, it has been revealing, funny, absurd, and yet at times informative. Seems like a good one to me. But I am but one person, and enjoy the perspective of others. I have no need to sling mud for your choices as they are yours. Still yet the "Rule" is......Choices and Consequences....it is as real as real gets.......be safe, enjoy your life, but never forget.......somebody's child is out there giving of themselves for you and for me!

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The best way to respond to violence directed at oneself (robbery, rape, assaults with a motive other than robbery) is controversial; recommendations and individual decisions are based as much on personal values and background as they are on objective facts (as we have seen in this thread).


The statistics are muddied by the fact that most attempted robberies that are deterred by the intended victim responding with a weapon are not reported to police. There is ordinarily no benefit to either party involved, or to any witnesses present.



It is my experience (having several friends and relatives in law enforcement) that police have a bias towards reliance on police response to crime. They believe that it is best for society, and in many cases the individual, to let the police do the policing. Further, most are not experts in statistics or criminology, and make recommendations based on personal experience which they view through the lens of their profession. They are also jaded by constant exposure to entirely fictitious claims of self-defense when dealing with the adult version of playground fights.


On the other hand, most law enforcement in the USA carry firearms while off duty, some going to considerable lengths to do so (either in terms of paperwork and authorization or carrying when it is technically unlawful for them to do so), out of a belief that it improves their safety.

I'd have to claim BS on the technically unlawful for them to do so as long as they are in their own jurisdiction. Some are required to.

[jamhass]

Joshua Slocum used thumbtacks quite successfully

[mvmojo]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I'd have to claim BS on the technically unlawful for them to do so as long as they are in their own jurisdiction. Some are required to.

From Wikipedia

President George W. Bush signs the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, June 22, 2004
The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a United States federal law, enacted in 2004, that allows two classes of persons—the "qualified law enforcement officer" and the "qualified retired or separated law enforcement officer"—to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with certain exceptions.

LEOSA is often incorrectly referred to as "H.R. 218". The act was introduced during the 108th Congress as H.R. 218 and enacted as Public Law 108-277.[1] The law was later amended by the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act Improvements Act of 2010 (S. 1132, Public Law 111-272),[2] and Section 1099C of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2013 (H.R. 4310, Public Law 112-239).[3] It is codified within the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 as 18 USC § 926B[4] and USC § 926C.[5]

[taxwizz]

I fully agree...Let the police do the policing. That is what they are trained and equipped for. And they won't get in trouble for clobbering or even killing, the bad guy.

The problem is....When the crime is taking place, there are never cops around. They come later to take notes and pick up the bodies. YOU are the one who is present for the crime, and you may need to defend yourself, or become a statistic.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by mvmojo

From Wikipedia

President George W. Bush signs the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, June 22, 2004
The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a United States federal law, enacted in 2004, that allows two classes of persons—the "qualified law enforcement officer" and the "qualified retired or separated law enforcement officer"—to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with certain exceptions.

LEOSA is often incorrectly referred to as "H.R. 218". The act was introduced during the 108th Congress as H.R. 218 and enacted as Public Law 108-277.[1] The law was later amended by the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act Improvements Act of 2010 (S. 1132, Public Law 111-272),[2] and Section 1099C of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2013 (H.R. 4310, Public Law 112-239).[3] It is codified within the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 as 18 USC § 926B[4] and USC § 926C.[5]

I believe retired cops can get approved to fly armed.

[mvmojo]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I believe retired cops can get approved to fly armed.

Actually no. TSA does not allow retired law enforcement officers to fly armed. Only active duty, and only if they have a specific need to have a weapon onboard and only if have also taken/passed the LEO Flying Armed Training Course.

see: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/law-enforcement

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by mvmojo

Actually no. TSA does not allow retired law enforcement officers to fly armed. Only active duty, and only if they have a specific need to have a weapon onboard and only if have also taken/passed the LEO Flying Armed Training Course.

see: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/law-enforcement

I'll bet they can if they jump through hoops to stay current with their dept. requirement and pass the LEO which makes sense. Most are just glad to be retired.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by taxwizz

I fully agree...Let the police do the policing. That is what they are trained and equipped for. And they won't get in trouble for clobbering or even killing, the bad guy.

The problem is....When the crime is taking place, there are never cops around. They come later to take notes and pick up the bodies. YOU are the one who is present for the crime, and you may need to defend yourself, or become a statistic.

Jeffery Snyder, "A Nation of Cowards":

Is your life worth protecting? If so, whose responsibility is it to protect it? If you believe that it is the police's, not only are you wrong -- since the courts universally rule that they have no legal obligation to do so -- but you face some difficult moral quandaries. How can you rightfully ask another human being to risk his life to protect yours, when you will assume no responsibility yourself? Because that is his job and we pay him to do it? Because your life is of incalculable value, but his is only worth the $30,000 salary we pay him? If you believe it reprehensible to possess the means and will to use lethal force to repel a criminal assault, how can you call upon another to do so for you?

[ArmyDaveNY]

I think this thread has drifted so far away from the original question that we are at the point where only a small percentage of the answers reference the original question. The decision to carry and use firearms, or not to, is an individual choice that each us must make ourselves. Each of us also must respect the others' decisions. As they used to say in the sixties, live and let live.

Having said that, if one chooses to be prepared in some manner, then one must break down not only their options, but also the various circumstances where a particular common object is best deployed. One poster mentioned that pepper spray/bear spray/etc. is not a good choice inside unless it is a streaming spray. Another mentioned a type of club that is more effective than a bat, particularly if needed indoors.

Lights, alarms, and other deterrents are not weapons although I think even everyone on this thread will agree that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound (28.35 grams/.45 kilograms for those in strange areas It doesn't quite have the same ring does it!!) of cure.

How can we classify these? Let us consider the following:
Edged weapons
Improvised stabbing weapons such as pens, screwdrivers, spear guns, etc.
Chemical weapons such as pepper spray, tear gas, and other irritants
Combustible/flame weapons such as flare guns, molotov cocktails, gasoline and other flame delivery or projectiles
Concussive weapons such as a club, fire extinguisher, baton, tool, or other heavy object
Have I missed any? I am guessing I have.

Of these, which do you favour? Again, if you choose to be prepared or choose not resist, that is unrelated to the original question.

[PirateFoxy]

Anyone proposing a variant of pepper spray needs to see what it’s like - when I was in high school another student stupidly sprayed a tiny amount at the carpet in a classroom and it cleared the room and took us all quite a while to recover. It made it quite obvious that while it could be quite effective, you also need to be extremely careful about how and when you use it so you don’t incapacitate yourself.