Complete Newbie with all the old and tired questions

[Cheechako]

Kerrpapa. Depends on your budget. Establish that. I definitely would avoid a "bargain" boat or you will likely fall into the trap of constantly working on the boat, losing confidence and get tired of the whole idea. An older boat is fine, but even if nothing is wrong when you buy it they are a lot of work.
Some of the best deals are those that someone has spent a lot of time and money refurbishing, they take the loss not you.
It sounds to me like a trawler may be a great option for you doing east coast travel. They feel much bigger and have a lot of living space up ...with natural light as opposed to the cave feel of many sailboats. Although of course nothing wrong with sailing!
Anyway, good luck.

[Cadence]

If you have the power boat experience, don't worry about it. Sailing is common sense and it does not sound like you wish to sail around the world. Ok, you may not win any races at first, so what. Find one that is as small as you are comfortable with
interior wise. Just economics, slip and haul out costs. Best of luck.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

Excuse me but may I just say...Hooey!

That is because you have never tried to find one.

Every single poster in this forum has their own individual idea of what is the minimum you can pay for a "good boat". Believe me I know because I have been told $150K is the MINIMUM for a good boat. Those who only have $10K do just fine finding boats. Those who have $150K insist it can't be done.

There are THOUSANDS of boats for sale out there. Yep many are "projects". Many others have been taken care of and are just old. An old, well taken care of boat is going to be cheap. Just because a boat is "70s" does NOT mean a blown out motor and dead sails.

But you can go on believing that. In fact you WILL go on believing that.

In the meantime I just found a 1974 33' OI for $10K. And yes it took me 4 months of looking. The last TWO owners had done all the maintenance, tuned the rigging, replaced the engine. The last owner had already bought a new boat and wanted this one sold. He wanted more than $10K but he took $10K.

And no, it does NOT have $25K of electronics. But it floats, sails and motors. It is in great shape. Good sails. Good engine. Old. Did I mention 1974?

I find it amusing that EVERYONE says you have to take what you pay for the boat and pay that same amount for upgrades to get it sea worthy.

Well... do the math. I buy a well taken care of OLD boat for $10K and if I have to double that? WELL under the $35K you say I have to start with. But so far I have paid $545 for TWO top of the line standard horizon VHF radios, main and hand held.

So one final thing. The man says he has $10K. You tell him to go home, he can't even think about it for under $35K? STARTING? Sorry buddy, you really can't (afford to) play in this game.

I say ignore these folks telling you what they think is the minimum for a "good boat". That is THEIR minimum.

What is the old saying... "If you think you can't do something, you're right!"

Firstly, I started my post with "I don't think..." so obviously I'm expressing my opinion.

And sure, there are good deals out there. My first boat cost me $5000 and served me for ten years, although I did have to learn how to sail a 32' boat back into its slip routinely because the engine was unreliable, and the head was off-limits period full-stop.

The OP intends to live aboard this boat with his wife. That's a way different experience than camping for a few days on a porta-potty, and it requires more functional and reliable systems than any buyer would be likely to find on a seaworthy, completely functional boat of an appropriate size for TWO people for $15K total after purchase and repair.

I'm not living in some fancy ivory-tower dreamland, I'm living in the real world where I've seen slip-neighbors get divorced over the constant failures, repairs, cost, irritation, and disappointment caused by living aboard a 30 year-old motor cruiser (ironically named "Destiny").

Most new live aboard couples aren't ready to give up warm showers and flush toilets and live in domiciles that leak every time it rains, or listen to a bilge pump cycle all night long. That's what $15K is going to get you 99 times out of 100. An additional $20K to either buy a better boat out of the gate or budget for repairs and upgrades is far less expensive than a divorce.

I did help my brother-in-law find his '78 Ranger 33' to live aboard at a mooring. It took many months to find, and while seaworthy it IS still a constant battle. It cost him $15K exactly, and he has put about $5000 into repairs in the two years he's owned it without touching the sails or rigging--purely mechanical. He's still hunting for the perfect low-cost live-aboard so I do in fact see the boats he considers whenever he thinks he's found a good deal that meets his NEW criteria now that he has a live-in girlfriend who won't won't stay overnight on a boat that lacks a shower and only has manual pump head, because that's not her dream. She must really like him because he dumped the both of them in the water on their first date trying to get her aboard from his dinghy. Anyway, he's been staying at her apartment to stay together because the best boat he could find for that money isn't sufficient for this purpose. It's his experience that informed my (as stated) opinion.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

My first boat cost me $5000 and served me for ten years, although I did have to learn how to sail a 32' boat back into its slip routinely because the engine was unreliable, and the head was off-limits period full-stop.

Right, reality at your available budget. And that is what you did.

I'm not living in some fancy ivory-tower dreamland, I'm living in the real world where I've seen slip-neighbors get divorced over the constant failures, repairs, cost, irritation, and disappointment caused by living aboard a 30 year-old motor cruiser (ironically named "Destiny").

So they weren't ready to deal with the reality of their budget, I got it. Let me just say that there are MILLIONS of folks not ready to deal with reality, only a small subset of them sailors.

Most new live aboard couples aren't ready to give up warm showers and flush toilets and live in domiciles that leak every time it rains, or listen to a bilge pump cycle all night long. That's what $15K is going to get you 99 times out of 100. An additional $20K to either buy a better boat out of the gate or budget for repairs and upgrades is far less expensive than a divorce.

Hooey I got that YOU believe that.

I did help my brother-in-law find his Ranger 33 to live aboard at a mooring. It took many months to find, and while seaworthy it IS still a constant battle.

Of course it is. Every boat is a constant battle.

It cost him $15K exactly, and he has put about $5000 into repairs in the two years he's owned it without touching the sails or rigging--purely mechanical.

Perfect. He bought a boat in his budget and has enjoyed it for two years. OUTSTANDING!!!

He's still hunting for the perfect low-cost live-aboard

And so it's time to get a clue.

so I do in fact see the boats he considers whenever he thinks he's found a good deal that meets his NEW criteria now that he has a live-in girlfriend who won't won't stay overnight on a boat that lacks a shower and only has manual pump head, because that's not her dream. She must really like him because he dumped the both of them in the water on their first date trying to get her aboard from his dinghy. Anyway, he's been staying at her apartment to stay together because the best boat he could find for that money isn't sufficient for this purpose. It's his experience that informed my (as stated) opinion.

Look it is a fact that there are folks who simply cannot sail AT ANY PRICE. The lady doesn't like the motion, or doesn't like the fact that she can't run to Walmart in the middle of the night. One excuse is as good (or fatal) as the next.

It is no damned use to tell someone who says "I have $10K" that they need $35K and that is precisely what you did. If you don't have $35K then you don't have $35K. Get over it.

Move on to "buy and maintain". You know as well as I that EVERY boat has to be maintained. EVERY boat is 'a constant battle'.

You can choose to sit in your apartment dreaming because you can't find "the perfect live aboard" within your budget or you can decide to deal with life and go sailing with what you can afford. If the lady (husband) stands in the way then accept that and move on. Get rid of the lady or get rid of the dream.

Entonces, Hooey!

Some other sailor in these forums said it perfectly. "There are a thousand reasons why you can't go sailing". You are reciting as many of those as you can dig up. Why?

[mstrebe]

Friend, let's try to remember that this isn't about your opinion of my opinion, it's about the original poster, Kerrpapa, asking for people's opinions, which we both provided. What you think about my opinion matters little to me and not at all to everyone else.

What matters is what's right for Kerrpapa, who hasn't lived aboard a boat before the way that you and I have, which is why I gave the advice that I did. He described his boating experience, and I assessed that it would be some time before he was ready to do much of his own work, which is the true requirement for boating on a budget. That, coupled with the fact that he intends to live aboard with another person, creates requirements that your "hey there are old cheap boats out there" doesn't address at all.

So let's ask him:

Kerrpapa, are you and your spouse ready to live without warm showers, with sketchy plumbing, and deal with engine failure underway? If so, $15K is a reasonable budget. If not, squeeze a bit harder until you can get to $35K if you want a much easier experience. Or don't go.

Getting into a plan underfunded and underprepared is the cause of all quitting. I'm trying to prepare the OP for what I believe it's really going to take to be successful.

[Bill Seal]

You sound like any couple who would like to buy a modest motor home and go travelling for a few years, only do it on the water. Good for you.
Out here on the West coast, you have Catalina or Oil Island White. Sometimes I wish we could ship our little Formosa 30 to the East coast and do the Loop.
We like a ketch, the sails are smaller, masts shorter, and you can sail Jib and Jigger if things get hairy. A V-berth that's big enough to sleep in comfortably is a plus, as well as a cockpit that you can sleep in on hot muggy nights.
Sometimes, while crawling around in the Engine Dungeon, I think an outboard wouldn't be such a bad idea either.

[jwcolby54]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

What matters is what's right for Kerrpapa, who hasn't lived aboard a boat before the way that you and I have, which is why I gave the advice that I did. He described his boating experience, and I assessed that it would be some time before he was ready to do much of his own work, which is the true requirement for boating on a budget. That, coupled with the fact that he intends to live aboard with another person, creates requirements that your "hey there are old cheap boats out there" doesn't address at all.

And I admire your concern, I just question your opinion. You are convinced that your OPINION is more valid than my OPINION.

And you try to simply restate your OPINION as a question to the OP, as if that magically makes your OPINION more than just your OPINION.

How about this, I will admit that spending more money will get you more boat. That seems to be what you are saying.

But to take your OPINION and restate it a different way, he really needs about $100K. Or better, $500K. Hell, a Million bucks seems like it should get him a pretty darned nice reliable boat. Yea, that's the ticket, anything less than a million bucks is dodgy.

What is it about your $35K that makes it magic? It is just your opinion. Or have you run a computer analysis somehow that came up with that number?

A better question would be to ask our fellow posters if they have experience buying a boat for $10k-$15K which did NOT involve all the nightmares that you so firmly believe are absolutely, inescapably involved in that price range.

Are there any folks out there who have spent less than $35K that do NOT "live without warm showers, with sketchy plumbing, and deal with engine failure underway?"

AND let's also ask if there are any folks out there who HAVE spent $35K or more and HAVE "lived without warm showers, with sketchy plumbing, and deal with engine failure underway?"

So far two other posters have chimed in that your nightmare is NOT their experience.

I have made it perfectly clear that if I do not have a millionaire budget then I am going to make compromises. You seem to indicate that if I will just spend 3.5 times what the OP says he can spend life will be grand.

Please be honest and admit that I could easily spend your "$35K" and my engine could seize the very next day. My bilge pump could fail while I am ashore and a my boat could sink because a through hull failed.

$35K is also not buying a million dollar boat.

But OK, to the OP... please go home and forget about this whole thing. mstrebe is convinced that you just can't do it on your budget. And that is good enough for me!

[jwcolby54]

I came into this forum 4 months ago looking for much the same thing as the OP, a live aboard for under $20K. I was FLOODED with "it can't be done". FLOODED with opinions that it simply isn't possible. I got opinions that I needed $30K, $50K, $100K. One guy told me I absolutely HAD to buy two boats, one to learn on and then the one I actually wanted.

Here is what I am going to say. There is a TON of "good intention folks" out there who have a lot of money. They never even looked for what I call "low end boats" because they didn't need to. That old "define your budget" is absolutely true. The next step is to "define what you can live with given your budget".

The folks saying that I needed a hundred grand wanted water makers. They can't IMAGINE living without a water maker. Or a washing machine. Or a dish washer. And so they swear up and down "you can't get much of a boat for $20K".

Which is absolutely TRUE... from their perspective.

It seems we have a member who absolutely believes that unless you have (picks a number out of thin air) $35K you can't POSSIBLY be happy, reliable and safe. And that is absolutely TRUE... from his perspective.

The key here is that HE BELIEVES THAT and so that is true for him.

I am here to tell you that I got a 33' OI for $10K. It is in GREAT SHAPE. No dodgy plumbing. No engine on it's last legs. A full set of SIX sails, in good shape. Rigging recently tuned. Old electronics, but it does have a VHF, depth finder and magnetic compass. The key??? The previous TWO owners spent THEIR money on getting it in shape, then they went off and bought a bigger boat. I am inheriting THEIR money!

So I WANTED a Hunter H37. I couldn't get that for my budget. I had to be realistic. I changed what I wanted to match what I could afford. I will not be pining away because I didn't get what I wanted. I will not be "sitting in my apartment dreaming" because I couldn't find "the perfect live aboard".

I looked for months but I found a nice (not PERFECT) live aboard. One that my friend wouldn't even consider. He would live in terror of dodgy engines and plumbing. I do not. I do accept that stuff will go wrong and I will have to spend more money in the future.

But I got news for all of you, you will ALL have to spend more money in the future.

My message is specifically addressed to those folks who have been told "go home, you can't afford"...

Listen to that message. Absorb the key concept, that you HAVE to make compromises. Then get on with selecting the best boat you can find in your price range. You CAN find a good solid boat for $10K.

And one last thing. Everyone who invests any money in their boat is giving that money to the next owner. If I buy a boat for $100K and spend an additional $50K on upgrades, I can count on getting $100K (or less) when I sell. I just gave away that $50K.

Some folks let their boats decay into the water, never investing a dime. Don't buy from that guy. Some folks keep their boats in good repair. Buy from that guy.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

Friend, let's try to remember that this isn't about your opinion of my opinion, it's about the original poster, Kerrpapa, asking for people's opinions, which we both provided. What you think about my opinion matters little to me and not at all to everyone else.

What matters is what's right for Kerrpapa, who hasn't lived aboard a boat before the way that you and I have, which is why I gave the advice that I did. He described his boating experience, and I assessed that it would be some time before he was ready to do much of his own work, which is the true requirement for boating on a budget. That, coupled with the fact that he intends to live aboard with another person, creates requirements that your "hey there are old cheap boats out there" doesn't address at all.

So let's ask him:

Kerrpapa, are you and your spouse ready to live without warm showers, with sketchy plumbing, and deal with engine failure underway? If so, $15K is a reasonable budget. If not, squeeze a bit harder until you can get to $35K if you want a much easier experience. Or don't go.

Getting into a plan underfunded and underprepared is the cause of all quitting. I'm trying to prepare the OP for what I believe it's really going to take to be successful.

Kerrpappa,

I think this is a good post worth considering carefully.

I have bolded some key points.

I put in blue the most important question.
_______________

One can buy a sailboat from a wide range of prices, or one could even get a sailboat for free (in rare cases). Some will seem "expensive" and some will seem "cheap" depending upon what the buyer looks for in terms of quality, seaworthiness, condition, size, AND their point of view regarding finances or money spent.

When you ask a question on an open forum like this, you will get answers from a spectrum of people who have different levels of experience (from none, or no sailing experience) to those who have a lot of experience sailing and/or from those who have owned multiple sailboats over many years.

I think it would be wise to consider the advice you are getting, but also consider the sailing experience of those giving it too.

For example, MSTREBE has many years of sailing with his spouse and boat ownership (of more than one boat) for experience.

I wish I had that same experience too. But I don't have that same experience. So I listen carefully to what MSTREBE has to say/write.

_________________

[RickDelaune]

I truly appreciate your situation. However your blog does not say where you are. There has been some fabulous information and a lot of time to get questions across to you in some type of organized format. But I'm a realist. You can't buy a boat over the internet. At some point you need to step aboard and see what she is all about. A blog cannot answer all of the questions that make up the "Boating Lifestyle". Soooooo..... I offer you an opportunity to talk to a real live person that may be able to help. This is what I do every day. So pick up the phone and call. 504-458-1013
Capt. Rick Delaune

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

I came into this forum 4 months ago looking for much the same thing as the OP, a live aboard for under $20K.

Okay, now I understand all the sudden invective. Honestly I'd thought you to be a pretty reasonable person on your marine electronics thread.

From the OP:

Safety, ease of handling (sailing, singlehanded, docking...etc), reliability, convenience and comfort are the top priorities.

Hence the tuning of my opinion. That, and the information that two people will be living aboard, should tune yours.

People come here to ask opinions from people who have more experience in a matter than they themselves have. I actually have a lot of experience in this matter, and I have spent considerable time going over the used boat market both buying and selling here in Southern California, for myself and for family and friends. I'm kind of the "go to initial boat inspector" for people who know me.

I understand that you're a really smart guy. You've certainly learned a lot in your two months of boat ownership.

I'm also a really smart guy, but I'm guessing I'm a lot older, as my work-from-home technology consultancy has blossomed into a good sized business over the past 19 years that affords me plenty of time for sailing and enough money to do it as I see fit. I hope your consulting does as well.

But I lived in abject poverty as a kid, and escaped to the Navy at 18 to get out of it having never seen the ocean. I did my six years, living three of those solidly underway, and fell in love with the ocean. So I do get a bit rankled when people tell me that my perspective is warped by money. I've been poorer than anyone I've ever met, and I still struggle to avoid being "too cheap" when things matter. I have to consider major purchases for months before I can convince myself to make them for that reason.

I'm not an expert in all things. In my twenty years of sailing, I've only owned four boats, none of them particularly beloved on this forum, but all of which I've loved, and I've only sailed Southern California and a little bit in the Chesapeake and New York harbor. My live aboard experience is limited to a two months at a time in the summer, because I have a family.

I too take it personally when people on this forum make claims I don't like, such as that my new boat isn't blue water capable. But you know what? I can't argue that yet, because I haven't taken it very far offshore yet. When I can, I will. And if I'm wrong, I'll admit it.

My wife loves sailing, and we go all the time. I'm very fortunate in that respect. The primary reason we upgraded to the boat we have now is that even with a partner who is a great sailor and loves sailing, our beloved 26' wasn't big enough to do the vacationing aboard that we wanted to do. Neither was our original 32', which had a narrow beam and a low coachroof.

To be quite honest, I should have spent more money and bought a bigger boat when I bought the 26'. I had convinced myself that I needed a boat I could keep on a trailer to avoid slip fees, which were "too rich for my blood". After four years of trailering, I decided it was too much work and that if I was going to pay for a slip I might as well pay for a boat too.

I watched, and helped, my brother-in-law do exactly what you're doing now: Buy the lowest cost seaworthy live-aboard he could find, and then live aboard it. I've seen his experiences over the last two years. He's still plugging away "officially", but has spent most of the last six months at his girlfriends apartment while his boat gets crapped on by seagulls on its mooring ball. Why? He went too cheap, and its just inconvenient enough to avoid. Now he's got an albatross to sell on to the next owner when he's ready to admit it.

I wish you all the best and truly hope that living aboard is what you imagine it will be. But I'm not going to moderate my good advice just because you've got a chip on your shoulder about rich people.

[jackj17]

Welcome
I have sailed on a budget my whole life There are many great old boats and from your list I would humbly suggest a Douglas 32 or an Ontario 32 Grampian made strong boats with lots of room The Ontario was my favourite boat she drew 4.5 feet fairly lively and robust construction Personally I won't consider an older cored hull A hole in a solid glass hull I can deal with Water logged balsa is a different matter. In closing the boats I suggested are more cruiser than Racer My last boat was a C&C 33 It was a bucket list type boat because a neighbour beside me had one brand new in the seventies It bristled with winches and was doing ten knots while tied up, My dream boat came with bags of sails and I was in heaven after a season of spinnaker stress and tripping over and cursing the pole I never even took a picture of her with the chute up. Now I am happy in my Cape Dory 37 but even that will end I am going the trawler route same speed straight line Its a grand dad thing

[Kerrpapa]

Ok, maybe I should share some information that may help clear some things up. My power boat is an 87' Regal. I intentionally bought an older boat because I liked the style better than the new "plastic" looking boats. Did budget play a part, sure. However, not all. Now a bit about my boat "Mischief Managed." She had been neglected, but not completely. There were a lot of repairs she needed. Here is a list of repairs I have done. Gutted her cabin and rebuilt. New stringers. Encapsulate stringers with new "glass." Glass entire forward and cabin. Take off and rebuild a stronger transom. Build stronger engine box (and stringers for motor mounts) for larger engine. Glass and gelcoat work on hull. Install fresh water cooling system on new engine. New head. New bilge. Install fire suppression system in engine compartment. New throttle and controls. Install trim tabs and hydraulic system. Install electric windlass. Remote search light. Rewire multiple gauges and lights. Replace fresh water tank. New composite decking in cockpit. Clean and completely refurbish all teak. Refurbish outdrive. Sand, strip and repaint bottom with anti-fouling paint. I'm sure I left out a few other minor items. Anyway, I did all of these over a period of time. I am no stranger to refurbishing a boat. Yes, it all was a bit of an expense that I will never get back, but my boat does not leak, is very reliable and I love her. Yes, I am a newbie as far as sailing goes, but not as a boat owner and all that it entails. Now about me and my wife. We have hiked and backcountry camped for a week or more at a time in our early years and every now again still. I have solo back country hiked and camped since I was 16. In my earlier years I logged many solo miles. My wife grew up on a working cattle farm and I spent a large part of my formative years on my grandparents farm. We live on the family farm now. In other words, she can rough it with the best of them. So can I. We have spent days and nights on our boat motoring lakes and rivers through locks and anchoring overnight in coves along the way. Not always in the best of weather. We have logged a lot of hours and miles in our boat. We have also spend a lot of alone time together and with our kids. Even though we have not "lived aboard" a sailboat for days, weeks or months, I have a pretty good feeling we can. I also have a bit of faith in myself that mechanically I could deal with most situations. Maybe not all, but most. And the wife is pretty good at it herself. The bottom line is this, I have a dream. I know I am a not yet a sailor. I know I have a lot to learn about sailboats, sailing and living onboard a sail boat. However, if my dream comes true, I will have my best friend, confidant, sounding board, coconspirator, love of my life and mother of our children along side me. I will not and would not ever place her life in peril because of my ego, ignorance, lack of preparedness or lack of funds. In other words, if it is a $10-15k boat I end up buying, it will the most seaworthy and reliable $10-15k boat off the coast. And I/we will know how to sail it. I hope none of this post has come across in a harsh tone. I just wanted to make a few things clearer about me and my dream.

[jwcolby54]

mstrebe,

I grew up on welfare, Yuma AZ. Abject poverty, single mom with a minimum wage job and 5 kids. Joined the Navy at 17 (1972) to escape poverty (and Yuma). Spent 2.5 years in Data Systems Technician schools, then 3.5 years on the Kennedy. I have done OK for myself.

I get annoyed when folks tell me I can't do something that is absolutely possible. And, it is sad about your nephew and his boat. But that doesn't make it impossible.

Originally Posted by mstrebe

On an older boat, be prepared to replace the sails, standing and running rigging, and some marine electronics. I would budget $3,000..$5,000 for every five years of age on a boat to bring it up to shipshape depending on your ability to get deals and do your own work. Boats over 20 years are going to require engine, transmission, shaft, and prop work if it hasn't already been done, as well as bottom fairing and paint.

Look, this advice is just left field. It certainly MIGHT (will) be true, if you buy a boat that the owner has left to sit somewhere for the last ten years.

My boat is a 1973 OI 33'. It is a NICE boat! The engine has been replaced. It has been rerigged. It has SIX sails in good condition. I paid $10K. The bottom is recently painted and clean. The previous two owners maintained the boat. They loved and enjoyed their boat and kept it up. This does in fact happen, I believe that you probably love and enjoy and maintain your boat.

Let me do your math. My boat is 1973. That is 42 years old. So according to you I need to plan on somewhere between 8 * $3000 and 8 * $5000. $24K to $40K on my $10K boat to get it into sailable (reliable) condition.

What I KNOW I have to do is paint the deck.

I WANT to replace the electronics, though I have been "informed" that "real sailors" have been going to sea for hundreds of years with way less than what I have right now. It does not have hot water.

I anticipate having to do solar showers. I do NOT anticipate having to replace the sails, rerig the boat or replace the engine. Or paint the hull. So where am I spending this $24K to $40K?

I do understand that old boats can be a money pit. A BIGGER money pit. But I am here to say that there really are boats where the previous owner put serious money into maintenance, as I assume that you are doing as well. If you were forced to sell your boat, I would buy it in a heartbeat because I truly believe that you are one of the maintainers. And if your boat was 42 years old it would be in GREAT shape.

And finally, I (personally) am budgeting $500 a month to go into a bank account for maintenance. But I would do that if I bought my $10K boat or something $40K AND that is for future maintenance which will eventually have to be done. And if I bought $100K boat I would be budgeting $1000 per month.

The only real bone I have to pick with you is your telling ME that I should sell my boat because it is 42 years old and it simply isn't possible for me to not spend $25K on it before I set sail.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder about rich folks, I have a chip on my shoulder about anyone making blanket statements that are patently untrue.

mstrebe, I found all of your other advice quite heartfelt, useful and appropriate.

[mstrebe]

Originally Posted by jwcolby54

The only real bone I have to pick with you is your telling ME that I should sell my boat because it is 42 years old and it simply isn't possible for me to not spend $25K on it before I set sail.

Look, I never said or implied any such thing. Nor did I say that sailing is any kind of club that only rich people can join; Again I sailed for ten years on a boat I paid $5000 for and sold for $4000 in the exact same shape I bought it in. So I do know how cheaply it can be done.

This post was for advice for two people to live aboard in reasonable comfort. I told the OP that It was my opinion that $15K was unrealistic. I still think it is, especially for a "Complete Newbie". Heck, a decent survey just to find out what condition a boat in will cost 10% of that.

On the OP's recent post he has indicated that he does have the requisite DIY skills to maintain and repair a boat and has done this work in the past: So he's not quite the "Complete Newbie" that the title of this post led me to believe I was opining for. Given that, and with the knowledge that his spouse doesn't mind digging in with him, I think the right number is somewhere between your estimate and mine. It takes a LOT more space to live two aboard than one, i'd say about 5 feet of boat length at a minimum. That adds a lot to initial cost. As you no doubt know, 37' footers are quite a bit more than 33' footers at any age.

I've just seen too many people get into sailing without understanding the cost and effort involved and then abandon it, loosing what they've spent, not to speak up.

My address growing up? 1632 3rd Street, Yuma AZ 85364. The new owners have fixed the place up a bit.