Complete Newbie with all the old and tired questions

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by Kerrpapa

Ok, maybe I should share some information that may help clear some things up. My power boat is an 87' Regal. I intentionally bought an older boat because I liked the style better than the new "plastic" looking boats. Did budget play a part, sure. However, not all. Now a bit about my boat "Mischief Managed." She had been neglected, but not completely. There were a lot of repairs she needed. Here is a list of repairs I have done. Gutted her cabin and rebuilt. New stringers. Encapsulate stringers with new "glass." Glass entire forward and cabin. Take off and rebuild a stronger transom. Build stronger engine box (and stringers for motor mounts) for larger engine. Glass and gelcoat work on hull. Install fresh water cooling system on new engine. New head. New bilge. Install fire suppression system in engine compartment. New throttle and controls. Install trim tabs and hydraulic system. Install electric windlass. Remote search light. Rewire multiple gauges and lights. Replace water tank">fresh water tank. New composite decking in cockpit. Clean and completely refurbish all teak. Refurbish outdrive. Sand, strip and repaint bottom with anti-fouling paint. I'm sure I left out a few other minor items. Anyway, I did all of these over a period of time. I am no stranger to refurbishing a boat. Yes, it all was a bit of an expense that I will never get back, but my boat does not leak, is very reliable and I love her. Yes, I am a newbie as far as sailing goes, but not as a boat owner and all that it entails. Now about me and my wife. We have hiked and backcountry camped for a week or more at a time in our early years and every now again still. I have solo back country hiked and camped since I was 16. In my earlier years I logged many solo miles. My wife grew up on a working cattle farm and I spent a large part of my formative years on my grandparents farm. We live on the family farm now. In other words, she can rough it with the best of them. So can I. We have spent days and nights on our boat motoring lakes and rivers through locks and anchoring overnight in coves along the way. Not always in the best of weather. We have logged a lot of hours and miles in our boat. We have also spend a lot of alone time together and with our kids. Even though we have not "lived aboard" a sailboat for days, weeks or months, I have a pretty good feeling we can. I also have a bit of faith in myself that mechanically I could deal with most situations. Maybe not all, but most. And the wife is pretty good at it herself. The bottom line is this, I have a dream. I know I am a not yet a sailor. I know I have a lot to learn about sailboats, sailing and living onboard a sail boat. However, if my dream comes true, I will have my best friend, confidant, sounding board, coconspirator, love of my life and mother of our children along side me. I will not and would not ever place her life in peril because of my ego, ignorance, lack of preparedness or lack of funds. In other words, if it is a $10-15k boat I end up buying, it will the most seaworthy and reliable $10-15k boat off the coast. And I/we will know how to sail it. I hope none of this post has come across in a harsh tone. I just wanted to make a few things clearer about me and my dream.

For me, this information about your character and the activities you enjoy is just as or more important than, or at least goes hand in hand with, your budget. Now that I know you are campers, hikers, backpackers, etc and that you don't mind roughing it a bit, combined with your intended plans to stay near shore, I would say that you should not have any trouble finding a decent boat for your budget, especially given that you are able and willing to do the refit yourself and you have plenty of time to do it.

We bought our current boat, a Cape Dory 33, for $15K, but I would not offer it up as the best example since we just parted with $13K on the engine and we're just getting started. However, we also paid $15K for our last boat, a Cape Dory 28, which was a wonderful boat and a perfectly capable coastal cruiser. We probably only put another $3K into her and she was a thing of beauty, safe, sound, and had everything WE needed. I stress WE, because there are many on this forum who probably wouldn't be comfortable on that boat for a daysail. But I say with all truthfulness that if I had it to do over I would have bought her back instead of buying the boat we have (she was for sale at the same time) and we would be going cruising on her. It did NOT have refrigeration, a shower, hot and cold water, or a full suite of expensive electronics. As a matter of fact we have spent 5 years of the past 30 living on small sailboats and not a single one of them had any of those things....not one. We lived for a year on a Bristol 24. When you have facilities available on a regular basis there are a hundred ways to make do, if you are willing. Some people are not. It all depends on what you want and what you're willing to do, or do without, to get it.

Now, why did I mention your intended plans as being important.... Because if you are staying by the coast instead of crossing oceans or anchoring in out the way places for week/months at a time you will likely be putting into marinas or city docks that have facilities on a fairly regular basis, therefore hot showers will be available. Water to fill your (small tanks) will be available. Provisions will be available so you do not need storage space for 2 months worth of food. Laundromats will be available so a small wardrobe and one set of bedding will suffice. Ice will be available if you don't have refrigeration. You get the picture.

There are a lot of boats in the 27-30' range that would make perfectly adequate coastal cruisers and that are within your budget. Most will be 70's-80's vintage and will probably need to be loved on a little. But if you have the time to shop you can no doubt find one that had been well cared for and can be made right without having to mortgage your first born to get it done. None of them will have a disco ball, hot tub, or hot and cold running champagne. But they'll have the same anchorages, sunrises, sunsets, swimming holes, views of the skylines, and shoreside activities that the guys on the megayachts are enjoying. Go for the experience and you won't be disappointed.

I would suggest getting a copy of Sensible Cruising, the Thoreau Approach by Don Casey and Lew Hackler. See if this philosophy suits you, if you see something of yourself in it. If you do then you are going to have no problem getting out there. You might also find the website for LeaLea interesting. Voyaging Under Sail, Cruising Lealea Home. This couple has been living and cruising (offshore) on a 27' Albin Vega for many years. The cruising life is available to all. Maybe there isn't a lot you can do to adjust the budget, but you can adjust your expectations to fit it and go.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Becky wrote:

Clip...

I would suggest getting a copy of Sensible Cruising, the Thoreau Approach by Don Casey and Lew Hackler. See if this philosophy suits you, if you see something of yourself in it. If you do then you are going to have no problem getting out there. You might also find the website for LeaLea interesting. Voyaging Under Sail, Cruising Lealea Home. This couple has been living and cruising (offshore) on a 27' Albin Vega for many years. The cruising life is available to all. Maybe there isn't a lot you can do to adjust the budget, but you can adjust your expectations to fit it and go.[/QUOTE]

Good post Becky!

And I second the recommendation to watch the LeaLea videos on Youtube. They have some nice "easy going" videos and style and I think it is cool that have gone so far (e.g. Hawaii to Alaska etc.) in their Albin Vega. Inspirational stuff.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Hi Folks!

This thread has taken some turns in unexpected directions.

It is unfortunate when discussions like this become derailed by emotions or tempers.

In this thread, certain statements reminded me of a thread I started a couple of months ago, where I began to make known what I consider "noteworthy" boats that are currently on the market at a lower price point (less than $30k).

Revisiting that thread I decided to add some more boats to it. If anyone reading this thread is looking for boats at a lower price point, I invite you to view that thread too, as its purpose is to identify and discuss specific boats.

This may surprise a few readers of this thread; the first boat I posted in that thread, some 60 days ago, was listed for sale at $10K.

Today, I came across another boat, a Morgan 33, listed for just $7K.

I hope this shows, I have nothing against looking at older boats, or boats that are priced below $30K. In fact, I see some that look attractive and well kept, or may need some work, but may fit within some member's budget.

In any case, even if the boat is priced at a low price, or looks good in photos, it is always prudent to have a professional surveyor look at the boat.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ds-147098.html

[Don C L]

I really enjoy listening to the experiences of others in these threads. We talk so much about this boat or that, but the boat is just a portal to the sea, and when you love the ocean and being on it, you often need less. Becky (Oldragbaggers,) you really hit on it, how we all share the same beautiful sunrises and sunsets, and if that is what feeds you, if that is what you are there for, you don't need much, and there is a lot of happiness to be had in not needing too much. When I was young and single and lived aboard my Columbia 24, I had so little I could take my boat out sailing in the evening after work, see a beautiful sunset, and often I was the only boat out! I had a lot of FUN with that boat for nearly ten years. I had a VHF, RDF, charts, lead line, compass, flare gun, flashlight and an alcohol stove and pfds and that was about it. And if anyone had made disparaging comments about my choice I am sure my blood would have boiled too, even if I shrugged it off. When I see a big beautiful new boat I do imagine a lot of fun, but I also now see big expenses, more maintenance, a hassle to take it out just for the evening and live aboard at the same time; I see a boat that may not go out much... BUT that is ME. THAT is MY take on the kind of experience I am looking for. I really appreciate hearing from other folks who have figured out have lots of fun with their boats, safely, simply and inexpensively. It is not only possible, to my mind, it can be more desirable. Becky, what you tell of wishing you could go back to your old, smaller, safe and beautiful (and less expensive) boat is one of best insights I have seen in these threads. It can be very inspiring and reassuring to all the folks dreaming of the sea, who aren't running a hedge fund.

[Kerrpapa]

I am enjoying reading the comments. It's fueling my dreams and desires!

[Don C L]

I have a good old friend (in his 50s) who has been working on boats his whole life, rigging, sail design, general repairs, engines, etc. He delivers boats often and travels around to work on boats. Recently he wrote to me he was working on a 76' motorsailer. He simply wrote: "Sailboats that big are stupid. Your boat is really the perfect size." For what its worth...

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Kerrpapa

Hello folks,
...

To my enquiry. I am 52 and in good, decent shape. I have a dream of retiring within 10 years and spending a few years coastal cruising with my wife

Well, it's been an interesting thread, so far!

Unfortunately, I think most of the people responding have missed an important detail. You have a 10 year horizon!

You've asked the wrong question. You asked what boat you should buy to coastal cruise the East Coast in 10 years. You've probably figured out by now that you're going to get a dozen contradictory and vehemently defended answers. They're all likely wrong. They're describing the right boat for them or for what they imagine you to need or want.

Only you can know what the right boat for you is. Well, actually both you and your wife. The problem is that you don't have the experience and knowledge yet. That's ok, you have lots and lots of time.

Here's the plan that I would recommend for somebody in your position (with links to some articles:

1. Learn to sail. You might find you don't like it, but you'll probably find that it is very rewarding.
2. Join a club or, better, buy a small learner boat in the 25-28' range for a few thousand dollars and sail the heck out of it for 3-5 years.
3. Take plenty of time to find the right boat for your particular mission and particular cruising style
4. Spend a couple years learning the new boat, upgrading systems, and getting it ready to go as you sail it every weekend and on your holidays.
5. Retire and enjoy

[oldragbaggers]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Well, it's been an interesting thread, so far!

Unfortunately, I think most of the people responding have missed an important detail. You have a 10 year horizon!

You've asked the wrong question. You asked what boat you should buy to coastal cruise the East Coast in 10 years. You've probably figured out by now that you're going to get a dozen contradictory and vehemently defended answers. They're all likely wrong. They're describing the right boat for them or for what they imagine you to need or want.

Only you can know what the right boat for you is. Well, actually both you and your wife. The problem is that you don't have the experience and knowledge yet. That's ok, you have lots and lots of time.

Here's the plan that I would recommend for somebody in your position (with links to some articles:

1. Learn to sail. You might find you don't like it, but you'll probably find that it is very rewarding.
2. Join a club or, better, buy a small learner boat in the 25-28' range for a few thousand dollars and sail the heck out of it for 3-5 years.
3. Take plenty of time to find the right boat for your particular mission and particular cruising style
4. Spend a couple years learning the new boat, upgrading systems, and getting it ready to go as you sail it every weekend and on your holidays.
5. Retire and enjoy

[CaptainBW]

One other piece of advice. Buy a book called the voyagers handbook written by Beth Leonard. In my preparation for cruising I found this to be the single most helpful resource to understand the issues related to cruising and living aboard. The book will take you through the thought process and decision-making that will lead you to the best boat for you and your situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Bill Seal]

We only want to cruise the east coast. Not venture offshore too far, maybe losing site of land every once in awhile in perfect weather, but coming back to anchor, moor or dock at night. We would like to spend as time we wanted in port (Say, St. Augustine...) for however long we want and then move along when ever we felt the desire. Time and pace would not be our priority. Safety, ease of handling (sailing, singlehanded, docking...etc), reliability, convenience and comfort are the top priorities.

Sounds like you need our baby Formosa 30 Ketch.
5 1/2 tons, 10.5' beam, 3.5' draft, 40' air draft, relatively small sails, 6' headroom.
But my wife says you can't have it.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by CaptainBW

One other piece of advice. Buy a book called the voyagers handbook written by Beth Leonard. In my preparation for cruising I found this to be the single most helpful resource to understand the issues related to cruising and living aboard. The book will take you through the thought process and decision-making that will lead you to the best boat for you and your situation.

Hands down my favourite book on cruising. It totally has everything you need.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Kerrpapa

Hello folks,
First let me say, I am not a sailor. I have been on sailboats and I know the basic workings and some concepts and terms. However, I have never sailed myself. I am a powerboat owner who has many years of large lake experiences with our 32ft cuddy cabin. So boating is not completely foreign to me. Even so, I understand there is a world of difference between lake power boating and coastal boating/sailing.

To my enquiry. I am 52 and in good, decent shape. I have a dream of retiring within 10 years and spending a few years coastal cruising with my wife (She's 46 and in good shape as well). We only want to cruise the east coast. Not venture offshore too far, maybe losing site of land every once in awhile in perfect weather, but coming back to anchor, moor or dock at night. We would like to spend as time we wanted in port (Say, St. Augustine...) for however long we want and then move along when ever we felt the desire. Time and pace would not be our priority. Safety, ease of handling (sailing, singlehanded, docking...etc), reliability, convenience and comfort are the top priorities. I don't mind doing regular cleaning and maintenance (as all boats need it), but I don't want to spend most of my time doing it. It's supposed to be a retirement! I intend on taking courses and gaining some sailing experience before this dream begins. However, I would still be at best, a novice sailor. I understand and respect this. I fully realize my limitations could be a matter of life and death. So ego is not an issue. Being realistic and safe as possible is number one. The fun, relaxation, enjoying spending time with my wife, the ocean and the adventure are next on the list.

Taking all these into consideration, what would be a good boat for us? A good length? A good used brand not too expensive? A Sloop? Ketch? Sloop/Cutter? Trawler? Trawler?Sail? (I have basic knowledge of the difference, but welcome any and all advice/education) What type of keel? Draft? Sail coverage? Engine size? What are some "must haves" for things such as navigation, safety, anchoring, putting up and taking down sails ...etc (again, I know about some of these from lake power boating, but as said before, I know offshore cruising is a whole different animal). We are at square one planning stage. Oh, and one last thing, we are not wealthy. So it would have to be an older boat that I would put a few years of sweat equity into getting her prepared. I refurbished our 30 yr old cuddy. So 30-40 year old boats do not scare me as long as they are not one step away from being scuttled or cost more to update and fix than buying a newer one.

I know these are a lot of newbie questions that will annoy many (sorry), but be a fun challenge for others who like to research, answer questions and share their knowledge and advice.

I am open to any and all advice and education.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Go to some marinas, not Yacht Clubs, Make friends with some of crotchetiest old bastards you can find with a boat, (You may find they are really the people loaded with money,)

You will probably get better info. than from the neer do well elite set, your having a limited budget.


Wear a ratty old T-shirt and cheap canvas deck shoes.

JMHO