Cruising Anchor Chain Length

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I am struggling to understand what's going on here. The Rocna is clear off the seabed (indicating a lot of tension), yet the Danforth is not dug in AT ALL! Just kind of relaxed there with an inch or so of each spade gently scratching the seabed. I give up! (but that fish there to the left of the Danforth is in agreement with me, it is also wondering, judging by its expression, how that anchor can do so well without bothering to dig in)

HeinSdL, that is a good observation. The tandem anchor (a Brittany) is snagged on rock, so it is holding substantial force without digging in. This is a close up of the anchor in question:

The example shows how an anchor can seem to have a secure set while backing down, but in a rock substrate in reality it can have a precarious grip. Often the rode will vibrate while setting as the anchor and chain jumps across the rock, giving some clue as to the nature of the substrate.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Sandydog

All that chain is crazy. 1/2 inch chain would weigh 1000 pounds. I don't want that in my bow. With the proper type and size anchor and periodic checking for abrasion, it should be fine.

That’s why we went down to 3/8” but also moved the chain locker 14’ further aft from the bow.
Here’s a picture showing the setup. There’s Treadmaster protecting the deck from the chain.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I’d bet my 88 lb Rocna on a 12 Ton 38’ boat likely is sized about what he has.
I’ve anchored at 3 to 1 maybe less, a lot has to do with the bottom, and the weather forecast, good clean sand where the anchor can bury forever, OK
I still feel better at 4 or 5 to 1, and if Wx is going to be bad or suspect bottom, I want 7 to 1.

You can only not have enough scope, you can’t have too much. What’s the point in pushing your luck?

We use short scope when the conditions require it. Either a too crowded anchorage, or not enough swinging room due to obstructions, or excessive depth. It's just a reality of cruising in new areas. You show up in what you think will be a good anchorage and you find that 2/3 of it have fish nets strung across it.
People that put out excessive scope in a limited size anchorage are just being rude to other cruisers.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That’s why we went down to 3/8” but also moved the chain locker 14’ further aft from the bow.
Here’s a picture showing the setup. There’s Treadmaster protecting the deck from the chain.

Looks quite functional Jedi. Just curious, but what lays behind your preference (expressed in an earlier post) for vertical windlasses? I know, I know, another area rife with strong opinions.

[SailCreation]

Why is a heavy anchor important. If I could get a large plastic anchor to bury the weight of the Earth would weigh more than any anchor. Is the burrowing ability of an anchor directly proportional.to.its weight? Why don't I worry about the area of the anchor (the amount of Earth it will collect) as much as the weight? After a certain weight does burrowing ability of an anchor taper off?

[jmh2002]

Did you read any of the links that I posted on page 3 here?
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2991748

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Exile

Looks quite functional Jedi. Just curious, but what lays behind your preference (expressed in an earlier post) for vertical windlasses? I know, I know, another area rife with strong opinions.

A vertical windlass works twice as good because the engagement of the chain by the gypsy is 180 degrees instead of 90 degrees, preventing the chain from jumping off. Add to that the much smaller footprint and presence on deck for the win

[Yellow bird]

Here a test made by an italian magazine (with a very brief translation):

I know that the most used type of mix rode (30/40m chain+rope) is missing, and it surely be a difference from a 10mchain+rope, but it could give the idea the same.

And obviously the data depend on the type of anchor, but with the same kind of anchor the difference between all chain/mixe rode/all rope is relevant

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Black Eagle

Here a test made by an italian magazine (with a very brief translation):

I know that the most used type of mix rode (30/40m chain+rope) is missing, and it surely be a difference from a 10mchain+rope, but it could give the idea the same.

And obviously the data depend on the type of anchor, but with the same kind of anchor the difference between all chain/mixe rode/all rope is relevant

Exactly. One of the reasons for all chain rode is superior holding power.

[DefinitelyMe]

There's one aspect of rode length that isn't discussed so often. Often (but not always) you can get away with carrying substantially less chain if you have a smaller boat, because even on relatively steep-to bottom profiles you can sneak right in to shore and perch on a shelf or tie the stern off to a tree or something with ease, whereas a 50-foot yacht would not have that option.

Our boat isn't that small at 36' but it does have a shallow draught. We have a manual windlass, so very often we employ such tactics for back-saving reasons.

Many times we've been anchored in 6 to 8 feet of water while the bigger, deeper boats have all been forced out to 30m+.

So, there's another aspect to it all. Yet more evidence that there are no hard and fast rules about any of this. No 'right way' (though there might be lots of wrong ones!) and perhaps people should not be too overconfident in recommending their way as the 'best way'.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

A vertical windlass works twice as good because the engagement of the chain by the gypsy is 180 degrees instead of 90 degrees, preventing the chain from jumping off. Add to that the much smaller footprint and presence on deck for the win

Good points Jedi, and they make me feel better about the $$BoatBuck I spent refurbishing my old bronze vertical windlass made by Ideal. I haven't anchored nearly as much as you, Dale & others, but it has thus far never missed a beat (or a tooth on the gypsy ). I'm not sure what it's rated capacity is but it doesn't seem strained whatsoever dealing with my 60+lb. Manson & 200' of 3/8" BSB chain. I'm pretty confident it could handle a larger anchor & longer length of chain if/when the time comes.

I suppose the downside to a vertical windlass would be the space savings on deck comes at the expense of space in the lazarrette, along with the lack of an easily useable clutch & brake (at least on mine). Btw, does your Maxwell have a manual override? Seems like a worthwhile option which my Ideal lacks, but which I've seen on several horizontal windlasses.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Adelie

My opinion:
30-40m G43 chain plus 100m nylon on main bower.
Another 30-40m G43 stored in bilge for Pacific where anchorages run deeper and in case the main bower is lost.

Certainly for a smaller yacht like ours, that's probably the limit I would want in the bow. Anything more will have to be rope, or park it on the beach which is so much easier.

Pete

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sck5

"You cant have too much rode" Absolutely true when at anchor.

However, you CAN have too much weight in the bow. Whoever it was above who had an 88lb. anchor plus chain on a 38 ft. boat might well benefit from getting rid of some of that weight up forward.

Define what you mean by benefit.
I have both a 25 kg and a 40 kg Rocna on the bow. I have a half barrel of chain in the right side locker, 900’ of 5/8 nylon, a parachute anchor, a gale rider drogue and a Yanmar parts box in the left side.
I generally also carry 300 lbs of fuel and water up forward on deck too.
Boat sits level on her waterline, but I have a generator and a lot of “stuff” in the Lazarette and a Dinghy hanging on davits off the stern with solar panels on top of the davits.
Dinghy 130 lbs, engine 100 lbs, 3 gl of fuel, anchor etc brings dinghy weight I’d guess to 250?
Add 120 lbs of panels and say 15 lbs for framing and 15 lbs for davits.
Now we have 400 lbs hanging off the stern.
Pretty much the anchors and chain balance out.

Now I’d go faster if that is what you mean, but I’d go even faster with a lightweight racing type of boat with no anchoring gear too.
As I said earlier if weight and performance meant much to me, I’d have one aluminum anchor and nylon rode.
I know I’m heavy, overloaded if you will, but enjoy what all stuff that weight amounts to.

[Paul L]

The location of the weight is just as important, if not more, than the amount of weight. Excess weight in the ends of a boat does nothing good for the offshore ride. I don't see the point of carrying a spare heavy anchor on the bow. Same for as Bob Perry puts it Crap on de back.

[CAVOK]

Hey thanks for all the information. I didn’t think it would stir up this much discussion. Can I ask whether keeping extra chain separately stowed for deeper water anchorages is a good idea. It would allow me to put the extra weight in a better position, but I am concerned about the relative strength of the joiner. Is there a best/strongest way of doing this.