Dock and Dash

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Of course berthing fees are much less here -- not infrequently €10 a night regardless of length; often €20 or €25 and rarely more than €35 except in big cities. $1.25 a foot mentioned in the OP is just about the most expensive berthing you will find in Northern Europe -- nearly €3.50 a meter. Why is berthing so expensive in the U.S.?

In some places it's driven based on cost of land, taxes, power, and all of the other costs to keep a marina operating. In some places I've paid $1 / ft, but there are places where $5+ / ft is normal. It also varies based on the services a given marina offers, and sometimes it's based on what people are willing to pay. On the extreme low end, in some places there are surprisingly decent town docks, sometimes even with power that cost nothing at all (although plenty of places do charge for their town docks).

What I consider reasonable to pay depends on where I am and what my needs are. If we're on vacation, it's 90 degrees and humid and we need to take on water, I'm willing to pay a lot more for a slip with power for the night than I would be on a 75 degree day where we need nothing and there's a beautiful anchorage nearby.

I'd never dock somewhere without paying though, certainly not without having tried and failed to get them to take my money.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by alansmith

It was wrong what he did. He shouldn't have lost his cool because he was found out. But I have seen him help others for many hours sort out their rigging problems and even providing hardware to solve their dilemmas.

A lot of people who would never consider stealing from an individual, and even go out of their way to help individuals, still somehow think it is okay to steal from a business. They ignore the fact that most businesses are owned by individuals, many of whom are just barely managing to keep their families fed. Most especially in these trying times!

And, yeah, some of those people, who would be horrified to steal from an individual, get quite proud of how they "put one over" on a business.

Originally Posted by Group9

We accepted those terms.

As I would have. Big difference between asking, and being told no payment is due, and just stealing the service without making the offer to pay.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

In some places it's driven based on cost of land, taxes, power, and all of the other costs to keep a marina operating. In some places I've paid $1 / ft, but there are places where $5+ / ft is normal. It also varies based on the services a given marina offers, and sometimes it's based on what people are willing to pay.

What I consider reasonable to pay depends on where I am and what my needs are. If we're on vacation, it's 90 degrees and humid and we need to take on water, I'm willing to pay a lot more for a slip with power for the night than I would be on a 75 degree day where we need nothing and there's a beautiful anchorage nearby.

I'd never dock somewhere without paying though, certainly not without having tried and failed to get them to take my money.

I tried to include a marina in one project I was building and commissioned a feasibility study from Camper & Nicholson. The economics are daunting, particularly the labor cost. So I can see how you could get to $5 a foot even without land cost (land for my project was free).


However -- $5 a foot -- that would be nearly $300 a night for my boat I've never paid a berthing fee like that, and fees at that level would significantly increase the cost of a longer cruise.


Glad once again to be in the Baltic this year.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

However -- $5 a foot -- that would be nearly $300 a night for my boat I've never paid a berthing fee like that, and fees at that level would significantly increase the cost of a longer cruise.

Yeah, it would take a lot for me to stay somewhere that expensive. Maybe 1 night if it's somewhere I really wanted to go and there wasn't a good alternative. But sadly, near NYC, prices in that ballpark are a bit more common than any of us would like.

Generally, given the boat I have, I figure that for any trip we take, fuel should be the single largest cost by a decent margin. If it's not, either we did a good job of breaking the boat, or we planned the whole trip wrong.

[Sailmonkey]

I’ve tied to a dock behind a strip club in Morgan City Louisiana, tried to pay....even tried to ask permission. Alas they were closed for flooding.

[Mike OReilly]

The human mind is a wonderful thing. It can justify just about any action it takes .

I think intention and circumstances do matter. There are cases where it is difficult, or impossible, to pay for your stay. That's a different situation, and class of people, compared to the ones who sneak in late and leave early with the specific intention of avoiding paying.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The human mind is a wonderful thing. It can justify just about any action it takes .

I think intention and circumstances do matter. There are cases where it is difficult, or impossible, to pay for your stay. That's a different situation, and class of people, compared to the ones who sneak in late and leave early with the specific intention of avoiding paying.

Indeed.

By the way, I am reminded of our experiences in Iceland two years ago.

There are NO yacht harbours on the remote East coast of Iceland -- just fishing harbors. I don't think we saw a single sailboat there, although I know that sailing goes on on the more populated West and North coasts.

We paid something modest in Seydisfjoerdur, the main harbour in that part of the country, but everywhere else we went, the harbourmasters refused to take any money, even when we were using electrical power! That was cool. We spent almost a week in one harbour waiting for a weather window to cross over to Greenland through the Arctic Ocean, hooked up to power and heating with electricity. I tracked down the harbormaster with great effort, ready and happy to pay, but the answer was, don't worry about it, bon voyage!


I guess that's a by product of an unpopulated area with very few yachts passing through.

[wsmurdoch]

Dockage at Albany Marina outside Nassau in the Bahamas is $9.00 per foot per day plus a $500 per day "resort charge".

[BugzyCan]

This topic reminds me of motorcycle camping, where I roll in late, go to put money in an envelope, but there are no envelopes, and no pencil to note your license plate number. I can imagine on a boat, if nobody comes to collect, it would be similar.
Seems to me it should be simple enough to have a lock on power on a dock, so they collect the money, then enable it for you, if they were really worried about it.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

Dockage at Albany Marina outside Nassau in the Bahamas is $9.00 per foot per day plus a $500 per day "resort charge".

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

Dockage at Albany Marina outside Nassau in the Bahamas is $9.00 per foot per day plus a $500 per day "resort charge".

Not that we are ever going to stay there, but what do you get for that fee?

Presumably its full of super yachts, oh it is

Do we need underwater lights?

Pete

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Indeed.

By the way, I am reminded of our experiences in Iceland two years ago.

There are NO yacht harbours on the remote East coast of Iceland -- just fishing harbors. I don't think we saw a single sailboat there, although I know that sailing goes on on the more populated West and North coasts.

We paid something modest in Seydisfjoerdur, the main harbour in that part of the country, but everywhere else we went, the harbourmasters refused to take any money, even when we were using electrical power! That was cool. We spent almost a week in one harbour waiting for a weather window to cross over to Greenland through the Arctic Ocean, hooked up to power and heating with electricity. I tracked down the harbormaster with great effort, ready and happy to pay, but the answer was, don't worry about it, bon voyage!

I guess that's a by product of an unpopulated area with very few yachts passing through.

I've had a few similar events. One time we got stuck in a remote harbour in the North Channel (Tolsmaville, on Cockburn Is.). Gale blew in that lasted days. Marina (just a dock behind an old concrete pier) charged a nominal fee, but only took cash. We hadn't planned to be there more than a night, so only had cash for one night. I explained and the dockmaster waived me off. I even offered to mail in the cash later. Wouldn't hear of it.

Last season sailing Newfoundland we anchored virtually the whole time. But we did go to a fishing wharf for two nights to pick up diesel and stretch the legs. Tried in vain to find a dockmaster. Everyone I talked said "Oh, he's around somewhere, but don't worry about it." Gotta love Newfoundlanders .

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Not that we are ever going to stay there, but what do you get for that fee?

Presumably its full of super yachts.

Pete

Honestly there is a point to some that money must not matter. I’ve been at Miami International at Millionaire aviation, that’s a real name by the way, where Jet-A was $2 a gallon more than the airport 20 miles away.
A Gulfstream 650 carries over 6,000 gl of fuel, so assume if it needs fuel thats a $10,000 difference in price of fillips, but don’t bother repositioning, just pay the extra $10,000.
But out the pilots up in a Days Inn while you go to the Hilton of course.
A few years ago Bill Gates flew into Americus Ga to delivery Jimmy Carter a birthday card. For whatever reason he flew in with 2 Global Express Jets, I guess the second was a back up? It was empty, no security detail etc.
The jets far exceeded the runway bearing capacity of Americus Ga’s airport so they are damaging to the runway, but I guess when your that rich you have different rules.

Any guess what it cost to fly a Global Express cross the US and back?

[a64pilot]

Me, I would never do the dock and dash thing, cause I guarantee you if I did the security cameras would catch me, and I would be the one that they would prosecute.
Cause it’s theft of services, no argument, and I have no idea what the punishment is, but bet it’s not trivial.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by BugzyCan

This topic reminds me of motorcycle camping, where I roll in late, go to put money in an envelope, but there are no envelopes, and no pencil to note your license plate number. I can imagine on a boat, if nobody comes to collect, it would be similar.
Seems to me it should be simple enough to have a lock on power on a dock, so they collect the money, then enable it for you, if they were really worried about it.

Someone stole my anchor once. I suppose if I'd been really worried about it, I'd have had a lock on it...

Someone broke into my convertible once and took a screwdriver to my ignition. Didn't get the car, but I had to buy a new lock. I suppose if I'd been really worried about it, I'd have bought a hard top...

Yes, it's pretty easy to rationalize human behavior.


I've been caught stealing
Once when I was 5
I enjoy stealing
It's just as simple as that
Well, it's just a simple fact
When I want something,
I don't want to pay for it
I walk right through the door
Walk right through the door
Hey all right!
If I get by, it's mine
Mine all mine!

My girl, she's one too
She'll go and get her a shirt
Stick it under her skirt
She grabbed a razor for me
And she did it just like that
When she wants something, she don't want to pay for it
She walk right through the door
Walk right through the door
Hey all right!

If I get by, it's mine
Mine all mine!
We sat around the pile
We sat and laughed
We sat and laughed and waved it into the air!
And we did it just like that
When we want something, we don't want to pay for it
We walk right through the door
Walk right through the door
Hey, all right!
If I get by, it's mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine, mine. . .


Been Caught Stealing, Jane's Addiction