Dock and Dash

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Why is berthing so expensive in the U.S.?

For the same reason medicine is so expensive in U.S. - people pay the demanded prices. And they have the money to pay.

[WindwardPrinces]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

For the same reason medicine is so expensive in U.S. - people pay the demanded prices. And they have the money to pay.

Medicine is so expensive because it's NOT a consumer-driven market. There is no price transparency, and the consumers using it don't know or provide input into costs. The entities providing health care determine costs out of the public view, so consumer choices aren't a significant price input. Though at the same time, health care entities like pharmaceuticals advertise to the public.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by WindwardPrinces

Medicine is so expensive because it's NOT a consumer-driven market. There is no price transparency, and the consumers using it don't know or provide input into costs. The entities providing health care determine costs out of the public view, so consumer choices aren't a significant price input. Though at the same time, health care entities like pharmaceuticals advertise to the public.

Neither are marinas are consumer-driven market. Ever tried to build one from scratch? The zillions of gov't required forms and procedures will make most developers weep.

About 12-15 years ago I looked with some partners at a rundown marina for sale Downeast in Maine. Very attractive deal on the surface - asking price was only around $250K, large storage building, separate office building with 2 apartments above, docks for a few dozen berths, etc. The only downside - it was 250 miles northeast of Boston.

We were very excited initially (all potential partners were avid sailors and marine professionals with years of experience). But when I looked at the legal paperwork and learned the fact that State of Maine owns the water under the docks and leases them to the marina (not even really long term and can end the leases under various "force majeur" clauses, etc) our enthusiasm cooled considerably.

Why would one invest in a marina (and it needed extensive rehab to make an attractive stop for cruisers/berthing place for the locals and storage place) when the state can end it on a whim or to satisfy some political new thinking unless one is politically connected? But even then it would be a big gamble. You multiply these opportunities for development lost by the hundreds across U.S. and you get the idea why marina berths are so expensive. We have done it to ourselves.

[slug]

Originally Posted by Nahbrown

We are at small marina off the ICW in Marineland Fl on the T dock for transient boats. Last night a beautiful 56ft trawler came in just before sunset and docked behind us so we went out to help catch their lines. They seemed nice enough and remarked how affordable the marina is at only 1.25 a foot for transient boats. (Theres a sign with that rate at the channel to enter the marina.)

The staff here leaves at 5 and returns in the morning and wouldn’t ya know it... the trawler was gone before they arrived. They got free dockage, water and 50 amp service for the night , then dashed. I guess 1.25 a foot wasn’t cheap enough.

Marinas are funny
It’s not possible to call in , reserve a berth and prepay with a credit card

You must pay at the office

As a result when doing a rapid stop and go on delivery it is impossible to pay in the morning

I never understood this

[Nahbrown]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Do you know if a call was made to arrange the berth and a credit card quoted to complete the transaction?

Originally Posted by rbk

Or a drop box for payment.

Originally Posted by gonesail

maybe they paid in advance?

Originally Posted by slug

Marinas are funny
It’s not possible to call in , reserve a berth and prepay with a credit card

You must pay at the office

As a result when doing a rapid stop and go on delivery it is impossible to pay in the morning

I never understood this

Not this marina. I called ahead and reserved with a CC. I haven't even been in the office because of the Virus. The phone number is on the sign and Website.

[Peregrine1983]

Whenever I have come in after hours and left before opening hours, I've called the marina later to tell them we docked and to pay with a card over the phone. I wonder how many folks thought we "docked and dashed".

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Peregrine1983

Whenever I have come in after hours and left before opening hours, I've called the marina later to tell them we docked and to pay with a card over the phone. I wonder how many folks thought we "docked and dashed".

I've got to believe that this is rarer than the dock and dash without paying scenario.

But congratulations on being an upstanding citizen.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Nahbrown

No payment was made, I asked. The manager was disgusted but said it happens from time to time.

He might want to pick up CCTV camera or two trained on the gas dock if it happens often.

Real easy to check the video...then pick up the name and hailing port...then he can put a lien on the boat for unpaid services.

We found out about this when casually commenting to an owner how a boat came in after gas dock closing time and left a half hour before they opened. He went in pulled the video up, wrote down the info to file later.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And I’ve done it one time with a dock. But it was much worse than this story.
I was transiting the great lakes going through Detroit. Detroit was awful. Not even a good place to tie up. About 1000 little jet ski type boats flying around everywhere with people screaming on them. Sketchy too.

Unless it was a holiday weekend or special event...there are plenty of marinas in and around Detroit and the majority allow transient rental of slips.

While much of the Detroit River is industrial, the people and the marinas are typically pretty nice. Outside the marina gates is another story.

Of course, you can run the Detroit River in a single day even on a slow boat up river, so if you don't want to pay for a slip, anchor near the mouth and then start out running it in the morning...no need to steal a slip.

[Adiona]

Before we assume they stiffed the marina consider this. We had a 44 ft trawler and have frequently had to leave very early before the marina opened to get to our next location safely. We either left our card number with the marina office the day before and they charged us by what we used or we called back after they opened with our credit card. So you never know.

[Ken Pole]

I am constantly amazed at how some boatowners, having spent significant sums on buying their vessels, nickel-and-dime just about everything from that point on. But, again maybe that's how they can afford bigger boats?

[Mahayana]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I've had a few similar events. One time we got stuck in a remote harbour in the North Channel (Tolsmaville, on Cockburn Is.). Gale blew in that lasted days. Marina (just a dock behind an old concrete pier) charged a nominal fee, but only took cash. We hadn't planned to be there more than a night, so only had cash for one night. I explained and the dockmaster waived me off. I even offered to mail in the cash later. Wouldn't hear of it.

Last season sailing Newfoundland we anchored virtually the whole time. But we did go to a fishing wharf for two nights to pick up diesel and stretch the legs. Tried in vain to find a dockmaster. Everyone I talked said "Oh, he's around somewhere, but don't worry about it." Gotta love Newfoundlanders .

+1 for the North Channel and Newfoundland! (Lake Superior, Georgian Bay and the rest of the Canadian Maritimes! Will go back this season once we get the boat back in the water and the border opens.)

[tomfl]

Been in several marinas where you had to pay to get power turned on at the outlet. In Cabo you also had to get a special device that plugged into the outlet and then plug your power cord into it. To get the device required a $US500 deposit.

In many places marinas are not able to produce a feasible business plan. While I get the govt. regulation stumbling blocks economically it makes a lot more sense to build a high rise water front condo. I know of several marina owners in South Florida who were literally offered millions of dollars to sell and the first thing the new owners did was raze the marina to build a high rise condo.

[Mike Cunningham]

Do you know that the trawler people didn't make arrangements and pay over the phone or online beforehand?

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Mike Cunningham

Do you know that the trawler people didn't make arrangements and pay over the phone or online beforehand?

It's already covered, back on the first page, post #11.