Encouraging live aboards

[MrMagoo2]

ok so how about this?

Collect all of the old boats that are not being used or sea worthy to be used to clear out the mooring fields to make anchoring room for the cruisers - chuck em on a big vacant lot after spraying them down and offer them to the homeless as a place to stay until they are back on their feet, move the boat hobos to land where their **** and pollution and crap doesn't kill our oceans as they are all connected ------
easire to live on a boat on the land than in the water - this must be a win win for all????????????? Thoughts Shall I run for congress on this policy????

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Its quite easy to save $2-4k PER MONTH these days living aboard vs living on land. Just the price difference between a mortgage and a boat loan will make up most of the savings. Typical mortgage payment (monthly) for an average home these days is around $5k... Contrast that with just the loan payment on a $100-150k boat (typically $1-1.5K ) that alone is most of the difference.. yes you have slip fees, liveaboard fees, etc but that roughly averages out to the monthly property taxes you are putting away. BUT and there is a big BUT here...winters are more difficult livingaboard than on land!

But let’s leave out the “ asset “ finance as the two are completely different. Let’s leave out property taxes as these are rather unique to the US , certainly as regard amounts.

The directly comparable figures are personal “ lifestyle “ spending and again let’s leave out boat maintenance as in the majority that’s way more then a house and is not again directly comparable.

I see no particular reason day to day living costs are much different then in a house , in fact I see them greater in the boat because the living activities are different.

In my house I have workshops , office , library etc. hence I can while away huge amounts of time there at zero costs. On thd boat there is a desire to “ get of it “ from time to time and that’s usually means money will be spent on an “ activity “

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

But let’s leave out the “ asset “ finance as the two are completely different. Let’s leave out property taxes as these are rather unique to the US , certainly as regard amounts.

The directly comparable figures are personal “ lifestyle “ spending and again let’s leave out boat maintenance as in the majority that’s way more then a house and is not again directly comparable.

I see no particular reason day to day living costs are much different then in a house , in fact I see them greater in the boat because the living activities are different.

You can't realistically "leave out" items you think don't apply. To liveaboard you need a place to liveaboard, which means you need to purchase an "asset" to do so, same on land. There are expenses associated with attaining that asset and they are part of the calculation of affordability. Lifestyle expenses you are correct are unlikely to change regardless of of you liveaboard or live on land.

Property taxes are not unique to the U.S. (I'm not in the U.S. and we have proprty taxes) but are still a part of the affordability calculation

[smj]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

But let’s leave out the “ asset “ finance as the two are completely different. Let’s leave out property taxes as these are rather unique to the US , certainly as regard amounts.

The directly comparable figures are personal “ lifestyle “ spending and again let’s leave out boat maintenance as in the majority that’s way more then a house and is not again directly comparable.

I see no particular reason day to day living costs are much different then in a house , in fact I see them greater in the boat because the living activities are different.

In my house I have workshops , office , library etc. hence I can while away huge amounts of time there at zero costs. On thd boat there is a desire to “ get of it “ from time to time and that’s usually means money will be spent on an “ activity “

So everything based on your location and your lifestyle, no exceptions?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by smj

So everything based on your location and your lifestyle, no exceptions?

Of course I think that’s applies to everything , my point is I don’t see living on a boat as inherently enforcing a low cost lifestyle. In fact if anything the opposite is true on lots of cases. Not saying what people do with their money is right or wrong , but I don’t see living on a boat as inherently cheaper way of living.

Like i boat in a lower cost country then home. So comparisons are different. But living on land here is equally if not more cost effective.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Of course I think that’s applies to everything , my point is I don’t see living on a boat as inherently enforcing a low cost lifestyle. In fact if anything the opposite is true on lots of cases. Not saying what people do with their money is right or wrong , but I don’t see living on a boat as inherently cheaper way of living.

Like i boat in a lower cost country then home. So comparisons are different. But living on land here is equally if not more cost effective.

Just means you have not done the math.... As a former liveaboard. I can with 100% certainty tell you that it definitely CAN BE less expensive to liveaboard when you consider all the costs (not just lifestyle related).

BUT it is a lifestyle choice as you mentioned you have an office, workshop, etc. (I did not have any of that nor did I want it at the time)

BTW many countries have an equivalent of North American property tax, they just go by different names. and that is an expense that you have to include in your math on affordability.

[smj]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Of course I think that’s applies to everything , my point is I don’t see living on a boat as inherently enforcing a low cost lifestyle. In fact if anything the opposite is true on lots of cases. Not saying what people do with their money is right or wrong , but I don’t see living on a boat as inherently cheaper way of living.

Like i boat in a lower cost country then home. So comparisons are different. But living on land here is equally if not more cost effective.

Absolutely! But for us in the US living on a boat can be substantially less expensive than living on land, so maybe location is the key?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Just means you have not done the math.... As a former liveaboard. I can with 100% certainty tell you that it definitely CAN BE less expensive to liveaboard when you consider all the costs (not just lifestyle related).



BUT it is a lifestyle choice as you mentioned you have an office, workshop, etc. (I did not have any of that nor did I want it at the time)



BTW many countries have an equivalent of North American property tax, they just go by different names. and that is an expense that you have to include in your math on affordability.

Sorry of course I’ve done the maths. I speak with the absolute knowledge of my living costs.

What I have contended is there’s no “ intrinsic” means I see that makes living on a sailing boat less expensive then on land ( ie either in a house or a rental ) in fact I would say the boat encourages more spending not less. !!!

Very few countries have property taxes of the same scale on North America.

Again I said let’s exclude property tax , and boat maintenance as these are specific to the instrument of choice.

I’m talking about living costs. Food, drink , entertainment , heat and light , clothes , grooming , leisure activities etc.

[goboatingnow]

Examples on winter well pay about 150 per month this year for marina electricity ( Dec -feb) as our solar will not suffice , this is higher then our house but that’s expected as the KWh is 3x the house.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry of course I’ve done the maths. I speak with the absolute knowledge of my living costs.

What I have contended is there’s no “ intrinsic” means I see that makes living on a sailing boat less expensive then on land ( ie either in a house or a rental ) in fact I would say the boat encourages more spending not less. !!!

Very few countries have property taxes of the same scale on North America.

Again I said let’s exclude property tax , and boat maintenance as these are specific to the instrument of choice.

I’m talking about living costs. Food, drink , entertainment , heat and light , clothes , grooming , leisure activities etc.

If you exclude all those items, we are not talking about living aboard vs living on land. We are comparing your lifestyle expenses vs someone else's lifestyle expenses, which in NOT what the discussion is about. Realistically its the COST of livign aboard vs the cost of Living on Land. and the math simply does bear it out that livingaboard CAN be substantially less expensive than living on land.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pcmm

If you exclude all those items, we are not talking about living aboard vs living on land. We are comparing your lifestyle expenses vs someone else's lifestyle expenses, which in NOT what the discussion is about. Realistically its the COST of livign aboard vs the cost of Living on Land. and the math simply does bear it out that livingaboard CAN be substantially less expensive than living on land.

I’m comparing my land costs with boat costs both of which I have readily to hand.

Where I to rent here , I would live at ½ of the annual boat operating costs.

Again I’m leaving out the asset cost as you can not compare a appreciating asset to a wasting one.

Again my point was where does the day to day savings arise on a boat that don’t equally apply on land.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Examples on winter well pay about 150 per month this year for marina electricity ( Dec -feb) as our solar will not suffice , this is higher then our house but that’s expected as the KWh is 3x the house.

$150 for electricity for the whole winter is a steal! That is my monthly for electricity for my small (1200sqrft) townhouse. My monthly Natural Gas bill peaks at $200 a month. Just the running costs of an average home

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by pcmm

$150 for electricity for the whole winter is a steal! That is my monthly for electricity for my small (1200sqrft) townhouse. My monthly Natural Gas bill peaks at $200 a month. Just the running costs of an average home

Sorry around €150 a month worse case my house is €100 a month not surprising as my marina is charging €0,50 a unit. ( b/tards )

This is just deep winter months , boat is much cheaper in summer but house costs fall too. (My utility owns me €570 at present !!!)

It say washing clothes here that’s 3x €8 a week at home it’s €2 a wash dry. Machine cost €230 at should give 10 years.

What I mean is I don’t see where living cost savings occur on a boat that couldnt equally be saved on land.

I mean here if I rent for €300 a month land living is definitely cheaper then a boat , which sadly has dawned on a number of live a-boards

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Examples on winter well pay about 150 per month this year for marina electricity ( Dec -feb) as our solar will not suffice , this is higher then our house but that’s expected as the KWh is 3x the house.

Holy heck batman. 150 a month? That's more than I pay in a year on my boat and I'm further north than you . 48°N here .

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’m comparing my land costs with boat costs both of which I have readily to hand.

Where I to rent here , I would live at ½ of the annual boat operating costs.

Again I’m leaving out the asset cost as you can not compare a appreciating asset to a wasting one.

Again my point was where does the day to day savings arise on a boat that don’t equally apply on land.

In your case the rent you pay and boat loan payments are even more directly comparable. You don't have an appreciating asset in your calculation. By renting you effectively have an "asset" with a much worse depreciation than a boat! Rent is a 100% lost expense at least when you sell a boat you get some of your capital back!

When comparing living aboard and living on land you have to include the boat and its expenses as part of your living expenses (just like house maintenance) just the same as you include your rent.

BTW these days renting is even more insane that mortgages. In many markets renting is now MORE expensive than paying a mortgage!