Encouraging live aboards

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Seriously? THAT’S what you got out of my post?

The difference is a BOATER wants to actually USE their boat. The other folks are looking for a place to live, and don’t give a crap if the boat can go anywhere. And yes… I would be happy to demonstrate annually that my boat can safely and happily move.

So it is you who decides what the right way to use a boat is? Seriously? Don’t you realize how entitled you sound??

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

While I get your take on the Youtube money makers that may promote a liveaboard lifestyle, your original post reeked of entitlement. So basically you set up the parameter of the thread. If you don't like people around you living cheaply, go to another marina. If you have a problem with "derelict liveaboards ", then go to the monthly city council meetings and make you case.

That's where I like my states rules on anchoring out . Your vessel must move at a minimum of 5 miles every 30 days .

[Phyrcooler]

Entitled?

Well… in my area you can no longer anchor anywhere without getting a permit FIRST. Then, that permit is restricted to 72 hours. Why is it this way? Well… the same reason it is currently happening in other areas. People trying to live aboard questionable boats. I’m NOT the entitled homeowner complaining about the boats. I don’t care how old your boat is when I anchor out and offer you a beer. I’m not the jurisdiction that made the rules. I’m just the guy who wants to go anchor out and enjoy my boat but I AM limited as a result of the actions of others.

I would like to stay on my boat more than 3 nights a week in my marina. But I can’t. Why? They’ve now restricted and are enforcing the number of “liveaboard” permits they’ll issue in the marina. Everyone else is restricted to the number of nights (3 per week) they can be aboard. Did I cause that?! Nope. Did I complain about any of my liveaboard neighbors? Absolutely not! I couldn’t ask for better neighbors. But I AM the guy who is directly impacted by this issue.

And in reality - my area is already heavily impacted. So, I should just be quiet and relax. I’ve got a great slip in a good marina. You know - the IGM/I got mine attitude. But nope… I’m concerned for a lot of my other fellow boaters in other areas that this hasn’t hit as bad - yet. Which is why I spoke up.

But apparent this hasn’t impacted some of you - yet. As a result, my desire to slow this down, and try to keep anchorages accessible flys over your head and is interpreted as “entitled”. Call it whatever you want. I’ve got thick skin. And I know what’s in my heart.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That's where I like my states rules on anchoring out . Your vessel must move at a minimum of 5 miles every 30 days .

Sensible rules. I wish we had them everywhere.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Sensible rules. I wish we had them everywhere.

Our areas are a lot different here and colder most of the year . Than you in southern waters.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That's where I like my states rules on anchoring out . Your vessel must move at a minimum of 5 miles every 30 days .

That’s a good rule. Made by mariners it sounds like. Some are excessively short.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by smj

2019 in Galveston Tx.
Sold a house for $379k property tax and insurance runs approx 4% so that comes to $15,160 per year or $1,263 per month.
Electric bill ran between $150-$200 per month so if I include association fees I’ll cut it some slack and call it $200 per month.
That comes to $1,463 per month for the house with no mortgage.
Same year the slip rent on our 40’ catamaran was $8 per foot per month plus electric. While living aboard we never paid more than $350 per month. Our insurance was $75 per month so total monthly costs $425 per month.
It cost us over $1,000 per month less to live on the boat vs. the house. That $1,000 per month covered all groceries and entertainment.
Fast forward to Nov 2022 and that house is worth over $600k and our monthly expenditures on mooring ball and insurance on the boat still about $425 per month.
So you are 100% wrong stating living on a boat is more expensive than a house. It may be for you, but it’s very location dependent.

Don't bother with the logic of expenses to own the property as GBN doesn't consider that part of the cost of living.. He only looks at lifestyle expenses and doesn't look at the whole picture.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That's where I like my states rules on anchoring out . Your vessel must move at a minimum of 5 miles every 30 days .

I don't have any problem with rules like this, especially in areas of high usage. I've suggested similar in other discussions. The details can be negotiated, but the concept that people don't get to squat indefinitely on public lands (or waters) is reasonable.

But ultimately, if people are being pushed into living on boats because it's their best option, then the issue is NOT about boating. It's about providing better housing options for these people (something I also said, way back near the start of this thread). People ... ALL people, have to live somewhere.

Trying to define who is a real boater, and who is unworthy, is a slippery slope that leads nowhere good.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I don't have any problem with rules like this, especially in areas of high usage. I've suggested similar in other discussions. The details can be negotiated, but the concept that people don't get to squat indefinitely on public lands (or waters) is reasonable.

But ultimately, if people are being pushed into living on boats because it's their best option, then the issue is NOT about boating. It's about providing better housing options for these people (something I also said, way back near the start of this thread). People ... ALL people, have to live somewhere.

Trying to define who is a real boater, and who is unworthy, is a slippery slope that leads nowhere good.

All good points but in California the politicians have used the homeless issue as a means to siphon off money for the issue, in order to grow government. Federal monies are received and squandered away to grow local and state bureaucracies. We still have a growing population of homeless. Never a penny spent on mental health or drug treatment which, in a vast majority of cases, is the problem.

[smj]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Don't bother with the logic of expenses to own the property as GBN doesn't consider that part of the cost of living.. He only looks at lifestyle expenses and doesn't look at the whole picture.

I think your right, which means you could live in a tent or a sleeping bag on the beach for the same cost as owning a home!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

All good points but in California the politicians have used the homeless issue as a means to siphon off money for the issue, in order to grow government. Federal monies are received and squandered away to grow local and state bureaucracies. We still have a growing population of homeless. Never a penny spent on mental health or drug treatment which, in a vast majority of cases, is the problem.

Most homeless problems can be traced back to poor government policy. It's true here north of the border as well. In Canada's case, it has mostly been about the underfunding of mental health and social support systems, and downloading the problem largely onto municipal governments, who are ill-equipped to manage this complex issue.

While we muse about the ultimate cause of homelessness, people still have to live somewhere. As most of us agree, boat life can be a less expensive way to live, so there's little wonder some under-housed people are going this way.

But again, it's not a BOATER problem, and treating it as such will only mask the issue, and push it into other areas.

[Celestialsailor]

I don't think anyone here is musing about the cause of homelessness as much as the feds and states basically stealing money. It is, or would be, as simple as restoring mental health facilities to that of the 1980's, where family members could be involved to help their own get help. That has been taken away. Low cost or free treatment for drug addition has been taken away also and mostly cater to unions and large corporations who pay high end treatment centers to do "spin dry" intervention on their employees and members.

So if the issue of why people are homeless could be addressed, there would not be enough people living on, so called "derelict boats", that anyone would even care about.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I don't think anyone here is musing about the cause of homelessness as much as the feds and states basically stealing money. It is, or would be, as simple as restoring mental health facilities to that of the 1980's, where family members could be involved to help their own get help. That has been taken away. Low cost or free treatment for drug addition has been taken away also and mostly cater to unions and large corporations who pay high end treatment centers to do "spin dry" intervention on their employees and members.

So if the issue of why people are homeless could be addressed, there would not be enough people living on, so called "derelict boats", that anyone would even care about.

Very accurate post.

[ccanupii]

They stated that living on a motor yacht and paying marina fees is a little less than buying a similar sized condo and paying HOA fees in the Miami area. In no way were they encouraging people to purchase and live aboard a vessel anchored out that is derelict.

At one time in your life, you were not a boater either. Everyone starts somewhere. I recently started my boating adventure after years of planning, and I have never owned a boat nor was I considered a boater. I can tell from first hand experience after 2007 miles from Houston to Washington D.C. that the beloved community of experienced boaters are not that special.

I listened to a sailor with "30 years sailing experience", he blurted on the radii, that he right of way because " I am under sail", as the US Navy Destroyer was ordering him to alter course in the Chesapeake Bay. Just because you consider yourself or someone else a boater doesn't make it so. I have met many experienced boaters who are nor monitoring channel 16 or have a confused look on their face when I talk about not going into international water until I complete getting my vessel SOLAS compliant.

The videos and creators you are talking about, the Wynns in particular, go out of their way to show the responsible and courteous side of boating. They educate and give back, are they commercial, yes, it is their lively hood. But to say that you don't like people encouraging non boaters to become boaters, then you have missed the message.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ccanupii

They stated that living on a motor yacht and paying marina fees is a little less than buying a similar sized condo and paying HOA fees in the Miami area. In no way were they encouraging people to purchase and live aboard a vessel anchored out that is derelict.

At one time in your life, you were not a boater either. Everyone starts somewhere. I recently started my boating adventure after years of planning, and I have never owned a boat nor was I considered a boater. I can tell from first hand experience after 2007 miles from Houston to Washington D.C. that the beloved community of experienced boaters are not that special.

I listened to a sailor with "30 years sailing experience", he blurted on the radii, that he right of way because " I am under sail", as the US Navy Destroyer was ordering him to alter course in the Chesapeake Bay. Just because you consider yourself or someone else a boater doesn't make it so. I have met many experienced boaters who are nor monitoring channel 16 or have a confused look on their face when I talk about not going into international water until I complete getting my vessel SOLAS compliant.

The videos and creators you are talking about, the Wynns in particular, go out of their way to show the responsible and courteous side of boating. They educate and give back, are they commercial, yes, it is their lively hood. But to say that you don't like people encouraging non boaters to become boaters, then you have missed the message.

Son I learned to walk on a fishing boat . The destroyer has the right of way over all other vessels in the bay. As a military vessel and in a limited maneuvering ability . ( then there is the rule of tonnage) My radio is on 16 as well as AIS .
You do understand SOLAS does not apply to small private pleasure craft ( vessels not engaging in commercial procedures)

I have barely been able to choke down half of an episode the winns to commercialized. For my taste.