Encouraging live aboards

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I wonder what it costs me to be on my boat. If I only knew for sure with no not counting



Living on a boat MAY be less expensive. A lot depends on whether you are just living or are cruising on a boat (for a definition lets same cruising is maintain the boat to regularly do a 24 hour sail).



I have a $100k boat and am currently paying $385/mo for a no thrills marina and this includes water/electricity. My daughter has a $100k 3br/2ba house here that is cost her $515/mo PLUS water and electric. Since I do most of the maintenance on both I can safety say the boat costs 4x+ to maintain.



No if I were in the Florida Keys and just living on a boat, even the mooring would be 1/4 of renting an apartment.



So if you want to just live on a boat is CAN be less.



FYI - got a "cheap: dinghy last month for $2k and still have to pay the $1300 for my car repair

Are both items paid for in full?

[Linesledaft]

First off, F off. No one likes nasty boat people, but some of us actually live on and cruise our boats full time. You sound like part of the problem.

[nmcafee]

We are moving from a $650K house to a $350K trawler. I have a pretty extensive financial model that I have vetted through multiple people living the lifestyle right now. I have found that...

Living trawler life will be about $40K per year less expensive than living in my house, but....

A lot of that is simplifying my life. No property taxes, no car, no car insurance, no electric bill, limited opportunities for distractions (other than eating out and drinking), no......................

While my projected maintenance costs and hourly offset to save for engine repair/replacement dwarf my maintenance on the house there were way more ancillary costs with home-based life.

Our variability is fuel and engine wear. My first year I have almost 4000 miles planned (bahamas in winter, up to new england in summer, back to bahamas. My total cost per mile is about $9 including fuel, motor offset (savings for repair/replacement) and generator use and offset. So we have a $36K variable cost depending on how far we go.

I will lose another 8% per year on the $650K house I sold. That number might seem high, but in Dallas it is pretty conservative. So, 5 years of lost housing appreciation is about $300K of missed upside. My $350K trawler might get $40K of repairs and end up valued at $300K in 5 years.

So, I am sinking money into a falling asset instead of a growing asset (house). However, I am literally dreaming about the boat life and the connections to good people we will make. It is well worth the trade.

I am an economic analyst and love breaking this stuff down. Reach out if you want to discuss a specific plan.

[rnanaples]

I think they ought to make you lord of all water. It appears that you feel you should be able to decide who lives aboard and who does not. Forget silly videos let's forget your silly post.

[aqfishing]

In South Africa all vessels over 3.5m and 15 hp have to have an annual survey. You cannot go out on any inland or sea water bodies without a valid Certificate of Fitness (smaller vessels) or Local general safety certificate for larger vessels. You also need a Certificate of Competency (Skippers ticket) thats is valid for your area of operation.

Its a pain in the ass, but its actually a good thing. At least more people now ride on the right side of the river!

Seems to me the US could benefit from some sort of similar legislation.

[RedneckRedcoat]

It saddens to see posts like this, comes across as grumpy old men winging about everything under the sun.

Is living on a boat cheaper than living on land. Most definitely. We are full time live aboards and for 9 months lived on a budget of $3000 a month. If your making minimum wage and house rent is half of your income liveaboard lifestyle becomes very attractive.

But here is what most counties failed to enforce. If you own a house on land there are certain things you have to do by local codes to keep that house up to a reasonable standard and that should be the same as with any boat anchored, moored or in a marina.

I agree also that boats should be able to move under there own power. But there is also a social issue . Most of the derelict boats are lo income and pitching a tent in some wood is pretty much no differnt.

Do I think wynns and zataras should be more transparent, absolutely. But they are selling a dream and that’s how they make their money. Is that dream sustainable for most probably not. The zataras are who gave us the idea of selling everything and living on a boat. My wife and 3 kids haven’t looked back . We lived in a reasonable neighborhood earning 6 plus figures and were miserable now we love traveling and moving about. Best decision we ever made. So for that I’m great full to the wynns the zataras and every other YouTube channel that pointed us down this life.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Jammer

It is if you get it for free (or nearly so), don't maintain it, and abandon it after it is no longer useful.


The real problem is the supply of cheap, marginally seaworthy boats, many coming from estates or sold by marinas where the boats have been abandoned. The solution is to provide straightforward, inexpensive means for disposal, or (as has been done in some states) prohibiting the transfer of large vessels without a survey and insurance.


A reality to consider is that in most areas there are no "boat disposal services." An executor of an estate that includes a worthless boat and wants to dispose of it has to arrange everything. Find someone to remove fuel and hazardous materials and anything else that the dump won't accept. Find a marina that will allow the boat to be broken up. Hire a towing company to move the boat. Hire a backhoe and a dumpster. Not only is all that expensive, it requires project management and is beyond the capabilities of most estate executors. So the boats get sold for $20 and a carton of cigarettes even though the executor knows what the outcome will be and doesn't like it.

Amen...It is not the fault of the individual who, in order to survive in today's economy, looks for new ways to "make it" in life by the best means available. Where the bureaucracy fails is implementing avenues for all parties to have a reasonable solution to the many problems that arise in "less than adequate" live a board situations. I think we can all safely say the anchor outs might no be using onshore bathroom facilities. So instead the powers at large simply say "NO" to anchor outs or turn a blind eye to the problem in order to save money. There needs to be a way for the needs of all to get what they...well...need. People of the lower economic scale need to have a place to be that can keep there dignity intact. The weekend yachties that have slips and want to anchor out occasionally should have a good experience doing so rather than seeing a pile of dilapidated boats with laundry on the lifelines.

Our local municipalities spend money on some of the most ridiculous things and turn a blind eye to peoples needs.

[Goodxcharly]

I here that! )

[OneBoatman]

Yes in some areas you can live on boat cheaper than you can rent a ghetto apartment. We did it for a little over seven years in Annapolis but chose to do it having had many years of prior boat ownership experence. We were not all in and kept a home albeit far away. Our cars rarely had room for passengers but we held firm not to pay for storage on land. It is pretty much a must that you be able to maintain most or all of your systems yorself for this to be true. Since the advent of SARS covid viruses, and even before, relying on others for anything to do with your boat can easiy double the cost absent DIY skills. Location is everything because your boat has to maintained well enough to be able to get to a safe place during hurricane season. I suspect you could live even cheaper still by buying a used RV and living in a Walmart parking lot.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

I was quite displeased to find a pair of popular YouTube channels (Gone with the Wynns / Nautistyles) collaborating on a video that encourages the idea of “Live on a boat… it’s cheaper than ashore”. While their example was a million dollar used yacht, the overall impact of their statements apply at all levels. In my humble opinion, this is a horrible message they are sending. We have enough issues with people trying to move onto boats as a way of living cheaply. Both coasts are seeing more and more anchoring grounds being restricted as jurisdictions try to keep out the derelict liveaboards. I’m not against a boater living aboard. I AM against encouraging complete non-boaters to go move onto a boat because it’s cheaper than ashore!

I’ve enjoyed many of The Wynns videos in the past due to their interesting travels, and excellent videography, but this one kind of set us off as we watched last night.

Here’s a link. If you bother to watch, I hope you’ll comment on the stupidity of this video. I didn’t bother watching the Nautistyle video as I have never like their channel.

https://youtu.be/qtu7IPvfWWs

For what it’s worth they are SELLING their lifestyle! They don’t sit in a marina and have a job. These are wealthy people. Nautistyles recently announced they are purchasing a new 62’ yacht! Is that your typical live aboard? Both have larger new boats. These are wealthy people already. I would imagine their channel was created for a tax break. Who on this forum has ordered a brand new 62’ motor yacht that is expedition quality? I heard the Wynn’s just ordered or took delivery of a larger sailboat. I’m sure over 50’.

So I ask the forum who here is in that world? I doubt very many.

[Happ]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

Ha… if I lived my life that way, I couldn’t participate on this forum either!

Not at all. But occasionally when something crosses my path that is such a disservice, or threatens my lifestyle, I tend to be a bit outspoken. These two channels have 3/4 of a MILLION subscribers, with this one video already being viewed 100,000 times as of this morning (in less than 24 hours). Kind of makes me want to speak up. Too many boaters bemoan the changes to our lifestyle, and the removal of more and more of our abilities to anchor out - but never speak up.

Howling into the wind as it were… some of us still try.

Just to let you know if you get a 1m views you make $2,700. You also get 40% of the ad revenue. There are matrix on income and 100,000 views is nothing. These people already have money. Maybe they made it big early in life and maybe they inherited money.

[RedneckRedcoat]

Originally Posted by OneBoatman

I suspect you could live even cheaper still by buying a used RV and living in a Walmart parking lot.

No cause someone on some forum would complain about it especially if they had a YouTube channel

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Amen...It is not the fault of the individual who, in order to survive in today's economy, looks for new ways to "make it" in life by the best means available. Where the bureaucracy fails is implementing avenues for all parties to have a reasonable solution to the many problems that arise in "less than adequate" live a board situations. I think we can all safely say the anchor outs might no be using onshore bathroom facilities. So instead the powers at large simply say "NO" to anchor outs or turn a blind eye to the problem in order to save money. There needs to be a way for the needs of all to get what they...well...need. People of the lower economic scale need to have a place to be that can keep there dignity intact. The weekend yachties that have slips and want to anchor out occasionally should have a good experience doing so rather than seeing a pile of dilapidated boats with laundry on the lifelines.

Our local municipalities spend money on some of the most ridiculous things and turn a blind eye to peoples needs.

Correct I couldn’t agree more.


Clearly living in a house in the US is far more expensive then elsewhere in the world so generalities can’t be made.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by JoetheCobbler

If you think you actually own Land,stop paying the taxes, you'll meet the actual owners!
A boat,on the other hand,is yours.
If you can keep it Sailing, it'll always be yours .

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Absolute Nonsense ,

proper countries have rock solid title laws for property ownership.

I own my house freehold . It can never be taken from my possession. I “ own” in 100% and the land under it

Long term tenants over 4 years have tremendous security , it’s takes court orders to evict them , if they pay rent they cannot be evicted

In addition there’s a whole body of laws that only apply to one’s “curtilage “ these DO not apply to boats.

On the contrary a boat can be seized and held under lock and key for many many reasons And such boat ownership is far far more tenuous then a house which has huge protection in legislation.

( in most European countries your boat can be searched at will by the authorities but your house requires court sanctioned orders )

I guarantee you that in the U.S. if you stop paying either your mortgage or taxes, a Sheriff will show up at your door within 3 months with an indisputable court order giving you a few hours to collect your things while the officers standby, then a hasp and lock on the house. I saw many of these personally during the recession.

[Traumerei]

Originally Posted by Phyrcooler

I was quite displeased to find a pair of popular YouTube channels (Gone with the Wynns / Nautistyles) collaborating on a video that encourages the idea of “Live on a boat… it’s cheaper than ashore”. While their example was a million dollar used yacht, the overall impact of their statements apply at all levels. In my humble opinion, this is a horrible message they are sending. We have enough issues with people trying to move onto boats as a way of living cheaply. Both coasts are seeing more and more anchoring grounds being restricted as jurisdictions try to keep out the derelict liveaboards. I’m not against a boater living aboard. I AM against encouraging complete non-boaters to go move onto a boat because it’s cheaper than ashore!

I’ve enjoyed many of The Wynns videos in the past due to their interesting travels, and excellent videography, but this one kind of set us off as we watched last night.

Here’s a link. If you bother to watch, I hope you’ll comment on the stupidity of this video. I didn’t bother watching the Nautistyle video as I have never like their channel.

https://youtu.be/qtu7IPvfWWs

Phyrcooler,

Although I share your concerns about spreading the misconception that living on a boat is cheaper than living on land, especially if you are going to be a responsible live-a-board and properly maintain your boat and the environment, I disagrees about your assessment of the Whynns video.

In their video they were specifically comparing the cost of owning a live-a-board motor yacht as opposed to a million dollar plus home or condo with related monthly association fees.

Maybe you, or someone else, could put together a video on the reality of boat ownership, the hidden cost and what it takes to do it in a responsible way.

Unfortunately, in Florida alone, for every derelict, poorly maintained, or abandon boat, there are probably significantly more trailer or mobile homes.

The reality is that we are not talking about the adventure seeking cruisers of the world but rather the dysfunctional vessels that never leave the dock or mooring.

The real social issues is how we can address the wealth disparity in this country so that those at the bottom can afford basic necessities like a roof over their heads.