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Woodland Hills · 06-09-2020, 06:59

Some places have jobs available, but only at minimum wage. How do you stay in the middle class at those wages even if you have two jobs? And who would relocate from a depressed area where you have family and friends to help you for minimum wage?

Next time you see one of those signs stop on and ask about it, see what they are paying and ask if you can get a 40 hr week. Most places won’t offer a full week so they can avoid paying for benefits. It is cheaper to hire two part-timers than one full-timer.

Carl-T705 · 06-09-2020, 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Some places have jobs available, but only at minimum wage. How do you stay in the middle class at those wages even if you have two jobs? And who would relocate from a depressed area where you have family and friends to help you for minimum wage?

Next time you see one of those signs stop on and ask about it, see what they are paying and ask if you can get a 40 hr week. Most places won’t offer a full week so they can avoid paying for benefits. It is cheaper to hire two part-timers than one full-timer.

. Haha, some of them have starting wages posted, 18.00- 28.00/ hr. Others post starting wages as 49,000 to 60,000 . So I don't have to ask. Of course if you drop out of free public school , can't communicate in word or print, what do you really expect for a wage?

Carl-T705 · 06-09-2020, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

Yes, and if only the waves would go up, that would help the working class.

The working class? Who is that? Most millionaires and billionaires have or had jobs. I guess we are suppose to hate and punish that group of the "working class". Oh yeah I forgot those are the Privilege class the others are suppose to hate and resent. A rising tide lifts all ships, no? Just keeping it nautical....

Singularity · 06-09-2020, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-T705

The working class? Who is that? Most millionaires and billionaires have or had jobs. I guess we are suppose to hate and punish that group of the "working class". Oh yeah I forgot those are the Privilege class the others are suppose to hate and resent. A rising tide lifts all ships, no? Just keeping it nautical....

The supermajority of folks are mooring balls on tethers made incrementally shorter by debt burden. It's always been this way. So, no, it does not seem like rising tide lifts all ships. Rather, it drowns mooring balls that the ships rely on. Of course when such mooring balls are ubiquitous at low cost, ship-owners don't need to worry so much about drowning mooring balls. But sooner or later, at some tipping point, there aren't enough mooring balls to service the ships.

Consider reading/reading about this book: Capital in the Twenty-First Century.

Lake-Effect · 06-09-2020, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-T705

Here we go ...the rich and the poor. I travel the entire USA, everywhere I go I see help wanted bill boards and signs in front of buildings. Who are the "rich" anyway??? Income inequality . Who's to blame for that?

Wolfgal pointed out how real purchasing power has been eroded; I'll just add that you can no longer raise a family on one salary, and there's been persistent talk about raising the retirement age. This is progress?

Look at the make-up of industry and the corporate world: a greater percentage of it is financial services now. Some level of financial industry is required to keep capital moving around efficiently, but now there's more money to be made by handling money, not actually making or doing something. And the salaries they pay... Wonder why graduate engineers opt for Wall St.?

This year, someone pointed out how much of the service industries are now devoted to providing services to the wealthy, such as managing the growing amount of rent and interest they collect from all the assets they control...

Contrast with the dwindling number of decent paying entry-level or low-skill jobs, the surge in temp and gig work. For the first time, the young people are not going to be better off than their parents (except for the lucky few who will inherit from wealthy parents). There's a big cohort of millenials with education and skills, approaching middle age without the foundations (career, house, savings/investments) that we all took for granted as we went through that stage.

Yeah, it should be obvious that the US and some other western nations are plutocracies, and the money people are firmly in control. In the US, they even managed to put one of their own into the top job, in the costume of a populist. A person born into the elite, promising to fight the "elite".

To some, even if they acknowledge growing inequality as a problem, they think it's somehow immoral or unthinkable to want to see the pile shared around a little more evenly, if only to aid the those at the very bottom.

Just because money has been accumulated "legally" doesn't make it right. The laws and rules have been altered and gamed to facilitate that distorted accumulation of wealth. That's not fair, it's harmful, and it's as much stealing from the future as a government going deeper into debt.

The pandemic is a catalyst. It's going to force us to think about the unthinkable... things like basic personal income, universal healthcare, debt forgiveness.

smj · 06-09-2020, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl-T705

The working class? Who is that? Most millionaires and billionaires have or had jobs. I guess we are suppose to hate and punish that group of the "working class". Oh yeah I forgot those are the Privilege class the others are suppose to hate and resent. A rising tide lifts all ships, no? Just keeping it nautical....

If you would read my previous posts I don’t hate or resent those that have worked hard to make a good living, it just those that have made it and forget what it was like working hard to achieve the same goal they have.
Seriously do some research on inequality.

valhalla360 · 06-09-2020, 07:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfgal

agreed. came across this:

"In 1971, you could buy a new Ford F-150 for $2,500. At $4 an hour, it took 625 hours to buy the truck.

Today’s model costs $30,000, and the average hourly wage is $26. So the wage earner has to work for 1,154 hours to get a standard F-150. Put another way, he has to sell almost twice as much of his time to get a set of wheels.

But it is not only the F-150 owner who has lost the value of his dearest commodity — time:

You can do the same calculation for housing. An average man paid about $24,000 for the average house in 1971. Today, he pays $371,000. Priced in time, the house cost 6,000 hours in 1971 and 14,269 hours today… It takes more than seven years of work for the average guy to buy the average house today – four years more than it took in 1971." (Bill Bonner)

Problem with these calculations are you are comparing apples to turnips.

Take the house example: In 1970, the average size was around 1500sft...now it's around 2500sft.

Also, outside of the south, it was rare to have central air/con, now it's standard.

There was 1 maybe 1.5 baths, a tiny kitchen and negligible insulation.

Go find you a 1970's era house that hasn't been upgraded and expanded...and I bet the inflation factor disappears.

Likewise, 1/2ton trucks are more powerful, more comfortable and safer, so it's really hard to compare directly. But a good example is the Jeep Wrangler. Base price for the 2 door version is $28k. Mahindra is selling the Roxor which is literally using the old Jeep plans that were approved for overseas sales, so other than swapping out for a small diesel engine, it's pretty much the same technology. It has a base price of $15k.

valhalla360 · 06-09-2020, 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by smj

Don’t tell anyone but the socialist countries appear to have the happiest populations.

Sure if you set up a study that equates socialism with happiness and guess what...socialist countries are found to be happy.

Woodland Hills · 06-09-2020, 07:47

The rich write the tax code via the politicians they rent through campaign contributions. The politicians select their voters via gerrymandered districts and use those contributions to remain in office forever.

Woodland Hills · 06-09-2020, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Sure if you set up a study that equates socialism with happiness and guess what...socialist countries are found to be happy.

If you are happy with your place in today’s economy, you need to pay more taxes!

yesthatsue · 06-09-2020, 08:28

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Originally Posted by MicHughV

it is striking to me, that I see few, if any, sailboats traversing the ICW, usually see quite a few, but not this year...

The snowbirds can't come this year, because the US/Canadian border is closed.

Chief Brody · 06-09-2020, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Sure if you set up a study that equates socialism with happiness and guess what...socialist countries are found to be happy.

Sweden = Social Democracy
Venezuela = Socialism

MicHughV · 06-09-2020, 09:36

we should be thankful for the millionaires and billionaires of the world....they provide work for 10,000's of thousands of people.....let them enjoy their superyacht...even on the yacht, they have captain, crew, chefs, etc...all drawing a salary and having a good time while they are at it..

smj · 06-09-2020, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MicHughV

we should be thankful for the millionaires and billionaires of the world....they provide work for 10,000's of thousands of people.....let them enjoy their superyacht...even on the yacht, they have captain, crew, chefs, etc...all drawing a salary and having a good time while they are at it..

So what do you think is a fair salary for a deckhand on a yacht?
And are you positive they are having a good time catering to the owner and guests? Remember they are working and not on vacation