"Everyone is buying boats'"during the pandemic, and it's causing a short supply

[a64pilot]

Money is cheap right now, historically cheap.

We are buying a house, didn’t plan to for two more years, but we got a loan at 2.25% interest rate, how could we pass that up? What will the rate be in two years?
Original plan was to buy a home with cash, assuming the historical average interest rate of 6.5%, and we have planned on a return on investments of 5% it made sense to pay cash, But we financed at 2.25% and spent way more on a house than we would have if we paid cash. With the low interest rate, paying cash over 30 years if I live that long would have cost $250K in lost revenue.

We may be going negative, I doubt it, but then I never expected boat sales to be where they are either, much less houses.

The economy is being stimulated and is actually pretty strong, but for how long?

In actuality the average working person who lost their job due to the Pandemic is actually in better shape financially now than when they were working, the reason is the extra $600 being paid for unemployment, and that is $600 per week, not per month, so an “extra” $2,400 a month?
https://floridajobs.org/cares-act
Plus the costs to work, daycare, clothing, transportation etc are gone and the time they can draw it has been lengthened too, of course this is temporary I guess, can’t keep it up for ever can we? Doesn’t the piper eventually have to be paid?
We have been in a bubble for so long with me expecting to wake up one day to find it has burst, but it hasn’t that even I the great sceptic don’t know what to think.

At least in North FL according to the local boat broker, it’s the larger powerboats that are selling, the ones you see that sit in Marina’s and never move. It’s my belief that they have the most room and are more “house like” with AC powered house refrigerators etc., and people fantasize about how they will travel, but almost never do.

I believe that actual honest to God cruising boats are a fringe market and are not at all mainstream. Very few want to spend tens of thousands of dollars on watermakers and oversized windlasses and huge battery banks, and Solar panels etc. they put the money instead into a larger boat.

Pic of house we are buying, if the chain doesn’t break

[a64pilot]

Oh, and please let’s not take this discussion down the political rat hole.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Money is cheap right now, historically cheap.

We are buying a house, didn’t plan to for two more years, but we got a loan at 2.25% interest rate, how could we pass that up? What will the rate be in two years?
Original plan was to buy a home with cash, assuming the historical average interest rate of 6.5%, and we have planned on a return on investments of 5% it made sense to pay cash, But we financed at 2.25% and spent way more on a house than we would have if we paid cash. With the low interest rate, paying cash over 30 years if I live that long would have cost $250K in lost revenue.

We may be going negative, I doubt it, but then I never expected boat sales to be where they are either, much less houses.

The economy is being stimulated and is actually pretty strong, but for how long?

In actuality the average working person who lost their job due to the Pandemic is actually in better shape financially now than when they were working, the reason is the extra $600 being paid for unemployment, plus the costs to work, daycare, clothing, transportation etc are gone and the time they can draw it has been lengthened too, of course this is temporary I guess, can’t keep it up for ever can we? Doesn’t the piper eventually have to be paid?
We have been in a bubble for so long with me expecting to wake up one day to find it has burst, but it hasn’t that even I the great sceptic doesn’t know what to think.

Pic of house we are buying, if the chain doesn’t break

Congrats on your home.Good time to buy. The only constant in life is change. Covid will go away, economy will come backand the kiddos will go to college some day. And you will have your housethat increases in value. Every 7 years or so, we'll experience a down turn but overall the graph will average upwards.

[Celestialsailor]

I just purchased another boat. This time from the Pacific North west. I'm shipping to California. The quotes are much higher than I remember. One company told me that while it was true that their rates have increased during the boat buying frenzy, when times are soft, which happens each year during winter, they have multiple Semi's and trailer that sit around waiting to be used while making hefty payments to the bank for them.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by smj

Obviously if there’s a moratorium on evictions then evictions are inevitable? Whether there’s a moratorium or not on evictions people can’t afford to pay their rent, and if the rent isn’t being payed then the landlords are taking the hit.

And those "evil rich landlords" can't afford to keep the property if the rent isn't paid.

A moratorium only works if it's a short term issue that will resolve itself.

Of course, this is why we need to be taking into consideration, the unintended consequences of the various lockdown measures. It's easy for the cure to be worse than the disease.

[a64pilot]

Quite a few people I meet cruising are those landlords.
One couple in the Marina I’m in are quite interesting, hard working, working class people. They were Ukrainian and got to immigrate by winning some kind of immigration lottery, worked hard for years with a small business, sent their only child to Med school, and have bought and refurbished several homes in the Jacksonville area and rent them out.

The wife lived very near Chernobyl and worked there apparently, she said she knew the Government wasn’t telling the truth and it was bad when none of the Physicist showed up for work

I have a hard time thinking of them as evil, rich landlords, although I’m sure those exist.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Quite a few people I meet cruising are those landlords.
One couple in the Marina I’m in are quite interesting, hard working, working class people. They were Ukrainian and got to immigrate by winning some kind of immigration lottery, worked hard for years with a small business, sent their only child to Med school, and have bought and refurbished several homes in the Jacksonville area and rent them out.

I have a hard time thinking of them as evil, rich landlords, although I’m sure those exist.

That's why I put it in quotes. Far too many want to play the class warfare game and outside of big apartment complexes, most landlords are hard working middle class folks. Even the big apartment complexes are often middle class folks who worked their way up to larger developments.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Money is cheap right now, historically cheap.

...Original plan was to buy a home with cash, assuming the historical average interest rate of 6.5%, and we have planned on a return on investments of 5% it made sense to pay cash, But we financed at 2.25% and spent way more on a house than we would have if we paid cash. With the low interest rate, paying cash over 30 years if I live that long would have cost $250K in lost revenue.

Nice score, for sure, congratulations... but doesn't this seem slightly insane - enticing a reasonably well-off person to use more credit, to possibly over-buy, and rewarding them with a low interest rate (and still deductible ... so jealous...) that's half or lower than the averaged returns they'd reasonably expect from conservative investments?

Meanwhile, gov't debt piles up and there's still a lot of support needed from lockdown effects for those on the lower rungs of the ladder? Perhaps the added buying helps rev up the whole economy... but it seems skewed.

[smj]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

And those "evil rich landlords" can't afford to keep the property if the rent isn't paid.



A moratorium only works if it's a short term issue that will resolve itself.



Of course, this is why we need to be taking into consideration, the unintended consequences of the various lockdown measures. It's easy for the cure to be worse than the disease.

Can’t imagine the cure being worse than death

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Money is cheap right now, historically cheap.

We are buying a house, didn’t plan to for two more years, but we got a loan at 2.25% interest rate, how could we pass that up? What will the rate be in two years?
Original plan was to buy a home with cash, assuming the historical average interest rate of 6.5%, and we have planned on a return on investments of 5% it made sense to pay cash, But we financed at 2.25% and spent way more on a house than we would have if we paid cash. With the low interest rate, paying cash over 30 years if I live that long would have cost $250K in lost revenue.

We may be going negative, I doubt it, but then I never expected boat sales to be where they are either, much less houses.

The economy is being stimulated and is actually pretty strong, but for how long?

In actuality the average working person who lost their job due to the Pandemic is actually in better shape financially now than when they were working, the reason is the extra $600 being paid for unemployment, and that is $600 per week, not per month, so an “extra” $2,400 a month?
https://floridajobs.org/cares-act
Plus the costs to work, daycare, clothing, transportation etc are gone and the time they can draw it has been lengthened too, of course this is temporary I guess, can’t keep it up for ever can we? Doesn’t the piper eventually have to be paid?
We have been in a bubble for so long with me expecting to wake up one day to find it has burst, but it hasn’t that even I the great sceptic don’t know what to think.

At least in North FL according to the local boat broker, it’s the larger powerboats that are selling, the ones you see that sit in Marina’s and never move. It’s my belief that they have the most room and are more “house like” with AC powered house refrigerators etc., and people fantasize about how they will travel, but almost never do.

I believe that actual honest to God cruising boats are a fringe market and are not at all mainstream. Very few want to spend tens of thousands of dollars on watermakers and oversized windlasses and huge battery banks, and Solar panels etc. they put the money instead into a larger boat.

Pic of house we are buying, if the chain doesn’t break

Just remember that $600 stopped two months ago. As one of those *fortunate* enough to lose my employment, insurance, and financial security d I e to Covid I strongly take offense to your remarks. My wife's *cares* funds stopped a full month before mine did. My daughter is desperately needing medical treatment and since we lost insurance she cannot get it. We have $5 and some change in the bank. We are only able to eat because we have spent the last several years freeze drying real food for our expected departure from dry land...
Luckily,<insert sarcasm> many states are using WHATEVER excuse they can to deny ANY unemployment benefits, so while they admit I am entitled, they now claim I am ineligible...
Don't believe all you read about how cares is helping everyone. It's over anyway and according to things happening in DC, it's history.

[Singularity]

It's not about good or evil, it's about sustainable. Practically all internal insurrections in recorded history are either primarily or predominantly about folks who are actively toiling perceiving that they inequitably paying for people who are not actively toiling...just for the former to get by in life. The active toiler doesn't care about what someone did last week or last year, and it doesn't matter what observers on any side have to say about the subject. That's just how history repetitively repeats itself.

So if sustainable is a goal, it's generally a good idea not to take a path that has never worked before in history. But, as George Carlin would say, some people see the wet paint sign and still have to touch the paint to be sure (assuming that the read the sign in the first place).

In this regard, boat procurement (cruiser-type anyway) to avoid catastrophe goes back several thousand years in mythologies in disparate cultures around the world.

[smj]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Money is cheap right now, historically cheap.

We are buying a house, didn’t plan to for two more years, but we got a loan at 2.25% interest rate, how could we pass that up? What will the rate be in two years?
Original plan was to buy a home with cash, assuming the historical average interest rate of 6.5%, and we have planned on a return on investments of 5% it made sense to pay cash, But we financed at 2.25% and spent way more on a house than we would have if we paid cash. With the low interest rate, paying cash over 30 years if I live that long would have cost $250K in lost revenue.

We may be going negative, I doubt it, but then I never expected boat sales to be where they are either, much less houses.

The economy is being stimulated and is actually pretty strong, but for how long?

In actuality the average working person who lost their job due to the Pandemic is actually in better shape financially now than when they were working, the reason is the extra $600 being paid for unemployment, and that is $600 per week, not per month, so an “extra” $2,400 a month?
https://floridajobs.org/cares-act
Plus the costs to work, daycare, clothing, transportation etc are gone and the time they can draw it has been lengthened too, of course this is temporary I guess, can’t keep it up for ever can we? Doesn’t the piper eventually have to be paid?
We have been in a bubble for so long with me expecting to wake up one day to find it has burst, but it hasn’t that even I the great sceptic don’t know what to think.

At least in North FL according to the local boat broker, it’s the larger powerboats that are selling, the ones you see that sit in Marina’s and never move. It’s my belief that they have the most room and are more “house like” with AC powered house refrigerators etc., and people fantasize about how they will travel, but almost never do.

I believe that actual honest to God cruising boats are a fringe market and are not at all mainstream. Very few want to spend tens of thousands of dollars on watermakers and oversized windlasses and huge battery banks, and Solar panels etc. they put the money instead into a larger boat.

Pic of house we are buying, if the chain doesn’t break

You got a good interest rate but did you think of the possibility that your house may lose 20-30% of its value in the next few years? I mean we are in a bubble, correct?
Also as Adeline confirmed, there are plenty of people that are really hurting in this economy including some of my friends. Just because there’s a small group of people that can afford to pay inflated prices for something doesn’t make the economy strong.

[Bullshooter]

It does seem that those fortunate enough to have money to spend are helping the less fortunate more by spending now than by sitting on their wealth, am I right? For instance, restaurants are closing left and right, and I want to eat out more to try to keep them afloat. Especially the ones that are favorites, and/or are being careful about social distancing.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Bullshooter

It does seem that those fortunate enough to have money to spend are helping the less fortunate more by spending now than by sitting on their wealth, am I right? For instance, restaurants are closing left and right, and I want to eat out more to try to keep them afloat. Especially the ones that are favorites, and/or are being careful about social distancing.

That's the theory... this crisis more than most will show whether trickle-down is effective or a myth.


But yeah, one can certainly have a small influence by patronizing the locals whenever possible.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

And those "evil rich landlords" can't afford to keep the property if the rent isn't paid.

A moratorium only works if it's a short term issue that will resolve itself.

Of course, this is why we need to be taking into consideration, the unintended consequences of the various lockdown measures. It's easy for the cure to be worse than the disease.

Exactly. You'd need a bailout of the banks and a mortgage moratorium too, in order to keep that house of cards going.

I have a friend who is over $15,000 behind in tent right now. I can't fathom that from her end or the landlord's end