"Everyone is buying boats'"during the pandemic, and it's causing a short supply

[kmgiunta]

Originally Posted by smj

Same with resort housing, demand and pricing is way up.
What bad economy? To me this shows the income inequality problem we are having? The rich seem to get richer and poor/lower middle class have record unemployment and evictions.

Income inequality? Really? Where is it written that there should be income equality? (Communist Manifesto, perhaps?) What we have had in the U.S., historically more so here than anywhere else on the planet, is opportunity equality. Somehow this has morphed into the expectation of guaranteed outcomes. Should I, as a 70 year old not-rich guy, expect an income equal to a guy who planned his life better? Equal to a guy who made better decisions or took advantage of opportunities when they presented themselves? Equal to the guy who spent 80 or more hours a week pursuing wealth? Equal to the guy who spent his savings or mortgaged his house, risking all to create or invest in a business? No and no again. Yes, there is the old-boy network and yes, there is discrimination. Yes, the uninformed and unconnected don't get the breaks that the well-connected get but so the hell what? That's history back to the dawn of time. What matters is what we do with the advantages and opportunity that we DO have and we have had plenty in this country (and still do). This expectation of equal outcomes and equal income has become a curse on our society and culture.

Would I like to have more? You bet. Do I deserve more? On what basis?
Because I'm breathing or something? Ingratitude breeds resentment and destroys what is good. I'm grateful for what I do have including time. Life is too short to whine about what I don't have.

I realize that this goes far afield from the thread topic but the quote was there and zeal consumed me.

[smj]

Originally Posted by kmgiunta

Income inequality? Really? Where is it written that there should be income equality? (Communist Manifesto, perhaps?) What we have had in the U.S., historically more so here than anywhere else on the planet, is opportunity equality. Somehow this has morphed into the expectation of guaranteed outcomes. Should I, as a 70 year old not-rich guy, expect an income equal to a guy who planned his life better? Equal to a guy who made better decisions or took advantage of opportunities when they presented themselves? Equal to the guy who spent 80 or more hours a week pursuing wealth? Equal to the guy who spent his savings or mortgaged his house, risking all to create or invest in a business? No and no again. Yes, there is the old-boy network and yes, there is discrimination. Yes, the uninformed and unconnected don't get the breaks that the well-connected get but so the hell what? That's history back to the dawn of time. What matters is what we do with the advantages and opportunity that we DO have and we have had plenty in this country (and still do). This expectation of equal outcomes and equal income has become a curse on our society and culture.



Would I like to have more? You bet. Do I deserve more? On what basis?

Because I'm breathing or something? Ingratitude breeds resentment and destroys what is good. I'm grateful for what I do have including time. Life is too short to whine about what I don't have.



I realize that this goes far afield from the thread topic but the quote was there and zeal consumed me.

No doubt if someone works harder, works longer hours or takes risks they deserve a better pay than those that don’t. But there is so much more to income inequality than that.

[MicHughV]

besides the power boat frenzy...local beach real estate has gone thru' the roof...
a relatively small single story, 1,200 SF, 3/2 on a 60 x 100 lot is selling for around $440K...
a two story on the same lot is $560K...
and I'm talking 1/2 mile from beach....
each block closer to the beach adds $10K to the price..
I'm told it is the N Yorkers buying the place up.....I've seen corner homes approaching the $900K mark....I've heard tales of beach front homes being bought for cash...buyers approaching homeowners with a sackful of money...house not even up for sale...
seems like there is no shortage of cash flying around..

[CaptFigmo]

Originally Posted by smj

Same with resort housing, demand and pricing is way up.
What bad economy? To me this shows the income inequality problem we are having? The rich seem to get richer and poor/lower middle class have record unemployment and evictions.

I quote JFK: "The poor will always be with us."

[a64pilot]

Real Estate has gone nuts largely due to cheap money, most wont pay cash for something when they can borrow for sub 3%.
It’s the reason I bought now, and why I borrowed when the original plan was to pay cash.
This is how it breaks out, from a prediction standpoint.
Prediction is based I believe on an average 5% ROI.
Average return for the last 20 years has been roughly 9% though.

Pay cash = $250,000 loss in revenue from investments over 30 years.
Pay 20% down to avoid PMI and go with conventional loan = $165,000 loss in revenue over 30 years.
Zero down VA loan, baseline, meaning no loss in revenue.

Little boats may be selling too, but it’s also the big power boats, particularly Trawlers, one on my dock just sold for asking, sight unseen. Won’t close for over a month though reason is you can’t get a survey, wait lists are a month or more long.
Cruising sail are likely not selling well, Usually never have, Newer Cats sell, because they are in fashion, sort of like SUV’s where it used to be minivans, and before that Station Wagons. Fashions change, but most want what’s in fashion, because they can brag about that.


But finally, it’s not only old white guys that can buy a house and get a good interest rate now, it’s ANYONE who has the ability to pay, isn’t up to their eyeballs in debt and has a good credit rating.

FL Real Estate is booming, a lot from my understanding from many deciding now is the time to Retire, many retirement eligible people decided to do so because of the Pandemic for whatever reason, reasons vary I’m sure, but also the cheap money, put those together and now is the time to buy that house in FL and move down.

I don’t know what’s driving boat and RV sales, cheap gas and cheap money?

[Woodland Hills]

Let’s go back to those days of rampant socialism when the maximum tax rate was 91%, union membership was 35% and the average CEO made 20 times what his average worker made. You know, during the Eisenhower Administration...... back when America was a total hellhole.

[rsementi]

Originally Posted by smj

Same with resort housing, demand and pricing is way up.
What bad economy? To me this shows the income inequality problem we are having? The rich seem to get richer and poor/lower middle class have record unemployment and evictions.

It’s not a zero sum game. The rich get richer and so do the poor, the middle and the upper middle income ppl.

The pandemic, and the lockdowns that are still in effect are hurting all levels of income.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by kmgiunta

What we have had in the U.S., historically more so here than anywhere else on the planet, is opportunity equality.

I somehow don't think so. Not at all.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by smj

No doubt if someone works harder, works longer hours or takes risks they deserve a better pay than those that don’t. But there is so much more to income inequality than that.

I agree 100%, I'm 52 and believe most that have come after me dont have the same opportunities, I came in on the tail end of a unique time. I definitely benefited from a work harder, longer and take a risk world, I know longer think it's that simple anymore. Entry costs alone limit most as its beyond ones saving ability.

Asset bubbles created by non sound money or better put the ability of excess currency creation due to no governor have created a huge inequality gap.

This gap is/will cause civil unrest.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I somehow don't think so. Not at all.

I would suggest you feel that because your on the right side of the game.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rsementi

It’s not a zero sum game. The rich get richer and so do the poor, the middle and the upper middle income ppl.



The pandemic, and the lockdowns that are still in effect are hurting all levels of income.

No, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, that’s the whole problem.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Let’s go back to those days of rampant socialism when the maximum tax rate was 91%, union membership was 35% and the average CEO made 20 times what his average worker made. You know, during the Eisenhower Administration...... back when America was a total hellhole.

You do realize, that was largely a product of the rest of the industrialized world being destroyed and needing to be rebuilt...while America was the only industrialized game in town.

You could have had a chimp running the country and the economy would have boomed.

So unless you are suggesting we start WWIII to set up the next economic boom, it's a pointless comparison.

PS: Pretty much no one paid 91% because the rules made it easy to circumvent claiming money as income. Union membership was a blip (down around 10% pre-WWII and we are approaching that again but unions have chased a lot of good jobs overseas where they are unlikely to ever return). CEOs simply made money other ways than a direct compensation package, it was a lot easier to hide it when there were no electronic records.

[barnakiel]

I do not think growing wealth inequality could explain this.


We are not talking about maxi yachts market but about cruising boat market that is apparently booming in the US.


If this is the case, there should be LESS inequality in the US. Because more inequality is driven by rapid deterioration of the now becoming extinct middle class. And it used to be the middle class that owned and sailed cruising boats.


So the expaining factor of the boom cannot be growing wealth inequality.


It must be something else. I bet something related to easier financing.


b.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Woodland Hills

Let’s go back to those days of rampant socialism when the maximum tax rate was 91%, union membership was 35% and the average CEO made 20 times what his average worker made. You know, during the Eisenhower Administration...... back when America was a total hellhole.

In my life time the maximum marginal tax rate has mostly decreased from the 91% that no one really paid due to deductions to some place under 40% now. The thing is that has not really changed the fact that the revenue collected has been around 20% of the GDP no matter what the tax rate is.

What changing the marginal tax rates does is change how tax payers shift compensation and vote with their feet to avoid paying taxes.

[barnakiel]

There are still people here who remember Eisenhower? Really? Congratulations.


I suggest you buy yourself a ticket to Finland or Sweden, go have a look, then come back and tell us what you think about socialism.


You are at CF? You have a boat? Why not sail it for once, visit some places and see what it is like THERE. Some clearly never had.



Eisenhower. Communist manifesto. Ignorant arguments based in endlessly repeated slogans.



barnakiel