Fake Circumnavigations

[Cheyne]

Originally Posted by zamber

Thank you for making my point with this question. Any type of answer can be made up. We have people claiming circumnavigations completely based on their word. If someone does not have proof, but makes claims, then it is a "maybe."

My larger concern is not people telling fish stories at the yacht club bar, it is people using their fish stories to ask for donations. There one person that claimed a solo voyage, but there is a video of her with other people on the boat. When money is involved, it is criminal fraud.

Okay Karen...

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by zamber

Here is a quote from the Ocean Cruising Club:
"continuous circumnvagation entirely on water"
https://oceancruisingclub.org/Circumnavigators

we are on that list (twice). It does not mean what you seem to think it means. They do not disqualify people who fly home for a visit and then back to the boat to continue.

[zamber]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

we are on that list (twice). It does not mean what you seem to think it means. They do not disqualify people who fly home for a visit and then back to the boat to continue.

I am talking about people that truck their boat over land for a small portion. The quote I had is about water, does it mention flying? It is also to show that there is an organization that says the same thing as I say on a point.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by zamber

I am talking about people that truck their boat over land for a small portion. The quote I had is about water, does it mention flying? It is also to show that there is an organization that says the same thing as I say on a point.

you said this:

Originally Posted by zamber

....Drying docking the boat, flying home for 6 months, then flying back means there was no circumnavigation,

and the OCC does not consider that a problem with the people claiming to have circumnavigated.

Trucking thru Panama would be a problem, but a relatively tiny number of people do that - typically only tiny boats which can't make the minimum speed thru the canal. It is typically hard to organize and generally more expensive than an actual on-the-water transit - we have rafted thru the canal with a 19'er and they had no problem getting thru but were just barely at the minimum speed (I think the pilot actually fudged it a bit because they were nice people).

I am curious who specifically are you so upset with - it would help to understand and discuss the specific cases?

[zamber]

Originally Posted by Breaking Waves

you said this:

Trucking thru Panama would be a problem, but a relatively tiny number of people do that -
I am curious who specifically are you so upset with

Below is my quote from the OCC. It was only about being "entirely on water." The reply had nothing to do with flying.

If a few people truck their boat for a portion, then those few people did not circumnavigate.

We have people out there lying about their trips around the world and asking for donations. Two that ask for money flew 1/2 way around the world to go to a wedding. Asking for money for a circumnavigation, but using it for something else, is criminal fraud. Also, the way they flew would be relevant as to whether they went around the world or not.

Here is a quote from the Ocean Cruising Club:
"continuous circumnvagation entirely on water"
https://oceancruisingclub.org/Circumnavigators

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by zamber

If a few people truck their boat for a portion, then those few people did not circumnavigate.

fine - I don't personally know anyone who trucked across Panama - do you?

Two that ask for money flew 1/2 way around the world to go to a wedding. Also, the way they flew would be relevant as to whether they went around the world or not.

No, not at all, so long as they returned to their boat and continued around the world on that boat by water. The flight is irrelevant (irrelevant for the OCC and most other definitions I am aware of, except ofc for someone claiming 'non-stop').


honestly 'circumnavigating' was once a special accomplishment, but is really not much of an 'honor' these days, so many people have done it - no-one really pays much attention to it anymore.

...........

[Rubicon King]

Watching a great episode of 2 and half men and they are singing about dousche. Seems fitting

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by zamber

Thank you for making my point with this question. Any type of answer can be made up. We have people claiming circumnavigations completely based on their word. If someone does not have proof, but makes claims, then it is a "maybe."

My larger concern is not people telling fish stories at the yacht club bar, it is people using their fish stories to ask for donations. There one person that claimed a solo voyage, but there is a video of her with other people on the boat. When money is involved, it is criminal fraud.

Is it? Who were the "people"? Are you sure it wasn't Customs and Immigration checking her in to some country? Or, alternatively, maybe she took some friends out for a day sail, returning to the same port before continuing her solo voyage. Does using the boat for other things while in port negate the solo aspect of the voyaging portion of the trip?

[Breaking Waves]

I personally think THIS is the most currently authoritative definition - it is from/by the authority that ratifies (most) sailing records.


a. RTW - Round the World, eastbound and westbound 21600NM. 2 separate records.
To sail around the World, a vessel must start from and return to the same point, must cross all meridians of longitude and must cross the Equator. It may cross some but not all meridians more than once (i.e. two roundings of Antarctica do not count). The shortest orthodromic track of the vessel must be at least 21,600 nautical miles in length calculated based on a 'perfect sphere'. In calculating this distance, it is to be assumed that the vessel will sail around Antarctica in latitude 63 degrees south.
A vessel starting from any point where the direct orthodromic distance is too short shall pass one single island or other fixed point on a required side so as to lengthen his orthodromic track to the minimum distance.
No starting point will be permitted more south than 45 ° south.
1 degree of longitude at 63 degrees south will be taken as 27.24NM

[sanibel sailor]

Sounds like Tania Aebi, who circumnavigated solo except for one 85 mile island hop, starting as a teenager in 1985, is with whom you have a problem? Get a f'ing life.

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

Does using the boat for other things while in port negate the solo aspect of the voyaging portion of the trip?

I believe technically this becomes 'singlehanded with assistance'. Or at least that is the way I have seen some similar situations interpreted.

'solo nonstop without assistance' is the most stringent standard.

I am still curious who Zamber is all upset about. He seems to have specific people in mind, not sure why he does not just tell us who. Then we could discuss specifics.

[BenBowSirocco]

Its interesting that you are so angered by other peoples actions- you may want to look into that.



I also think what you may want to circumnavigate the earth yourself before judging whether others have.



It usually takes 3-5 years minimum. When you get back, let us know if you had anything happen that was unexpected.

[Sandy Frank]

If I ride in the boat while it is being trailed across panama, or Ecuador, does that count? What if I buy a blue plastic pool from Walmart and put the keel in it?

[contrail]

Obviously, if you take a break and fly home, or whatever, but resume at the place you started your break, that does not disqualify you. Similarly, if you are singlehanding, but not claiming non-stop, and you stop somewhere and take others sailing, before resuming at the place you stopped, that does not keep it from being a singlehanded circumnavigation. You did all the parts of the circumnavigation singlehanded. That you did some additional bits with others onboard, is irrelevant.

[Sailmonkey]

Is this a real problem?