Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's also a crime for my wife to cut her hair without my permission in Michigan She's violated that law for years. Just because it's on the law books doesn't mean we should get out the pitchforks for something that is relatively harmless.

Sure issue a citation if caught (which is the typical response to similar non-political cases) but the extreme responses are mostly due to the political aspect and not out of any desire to protect manatees.

Cute, but also irrelevant. According to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission:

The manatee is protected under federal law by the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972 and by the Endangered Species Act of 1973, which makes it illegal to harass, hunt, capture or kill any marine mammal. The manatee is also protected by the Florida Manatee Sanctuary Act of 1978, which states: "It is unlawful for any person, at any time, intentionally or negligently, to annoy, molest, harass, or disturb any manatee."

Anyone convicted of violating this state law faces a possible maximum fine of $500 and/or imprisonment for up to 60 days. Conviction on the federal level is punishable by fine of up to $50,000 and/or one year in prison. The State of Florida can pursue prosecution under federal law in circumstances of extreme harassment, resulting in the death or injury of a manatee.

It is utterly irrelevant what was scrawled across the animal's back. It could have been a rendition of the Mona Lisa for all the law cares. Obviously in these dark days of your republic the choice of "Trump" has attracted added attention, but as the courts keep showing, they are above politics. The law is clear.

And in case people are unclear on the definition of "annoy, molest, harass, or disturb," the Commission website spells it out in plain language:

• Look, but don't touch manatees. ...
• Do not pursue or chase a manatee if you see one while you are swimming, snorkeling, diving, paddling or operating a boat.
• Never poke, prod or stab a manatee with your hands, feet or any object.
• Keep hands and objects to yourself. Don't attempt to snag, hook, hold, grab,

https://myfwc.com/education/wildlife...ng-guidelines/

[Old fella]

The real crime here is, this animal will be seen as a supporter by the rest of the herd and be outcast. Because as most of the world knows, these animals have far more intelligence than a supporter. This poor animal might have very lonely life for a while.

[Ringmaster]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Explain to me what you think the crime is?

As already stated, the law reads: "It is unlawful for any person, at any time, intentionally or negligently, to annoy, molest, harass, or disturb any manatee."

As I stated, it appears that it is irrelevant what was written. So please... explain how I am wrong.

Sir, My comment was based on the fact that nothing was "carved" into the animals back. My comment was not about the fact that some nitwit did something to the animal. That is not irrelevant. What is relevant is that the story be told correctly. Get it Sir!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Ringmaster

Sir, My comment was based on the fact that nothing was "carved" into the animals back. My comment was not about the fact that some nitwit did something to the animal. That is not irrelevant. What is relevant is that the story be told correctly. Get it Sir!

The point, Sir, is that it doesn't matter if it was carved, scraped, or spray painted on the back of the animal. This focus is utterly irrelevant in law, and to the infraction. People who want to quibble about some headline writer's descriptor are missing the point.

[Ringmaster]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The point, Sir, is that it doesn't matter if it was carved, scraped, or spray painted on the back of the animal. This focus is utterly irrelevant in law, and to the infraction. People who want to quibble about some headline writer's descriptor are missing the point.

It does matter if the facts are reported incorrectly. You must work for CNN or MSNBC. Everyone knows that a law was broken but making it more dramatic by lying about it doesn't make it more criminal.

[dcdiver407]

I have been diving with manatees and turtles, and in many harbors, marinas. Algae grows on EVERYTHING, including whales, turtles, and whales! Someone did not CARVE into a manatee! You only need to scratch on the surface with your fingernail to write Trump...on an itchy mammal. Stop the hysteria people! Your illegitimate savior will be inaugurated in a couple days. Then all sense of humor will be illegal.

[sailingabe41ds]

I like animals....but when we are letting out hardcore criminals....suspending bail...and the da in los angeles is refusing to prosecute real bad people, we have lost perspective on what is really important. Better use money for those who need food and shelter than the money that is going to be spent searching and prosecuting this case only to be let out because of covid.

imho

abe

[Manateeman]

Ringmaster. I’ve explained where the word “ carve “ originated three times in this thread... In addition, several other posters have done the same as well.
The LAW protecting manatees has been thoroughly detailed, for which, I thank the posters.
I have also explained WHY the word “Disturbed” was chosen for the both the Federal and State authorities and it’s simple...resting UNDISTURBED is critical to manatees as they resist cold weather.
These laws were not constructed upon one or two anecdotal opinions, but rather upon the consensus of those in marine mammal science. If you wish to dismiss this incident as fake news, or if you feel your personal knowledge of manatees differs from the consensus of science, please write to the Feds in Jacksonville. You might want to contact the defense team for these perpetrators. With $25,000 as reward, I’ll guess the Feds will have names shortly.
Finally, I hope forum readers will pull up all the posts I have written on manatees and the development of the vaccine for papilloma.
The preservation of threatened and endangered species and their habitat is simply in our best interest and I think the manatee / papilloma story proves that fact. Happy trails to you kimosabi!
Captain Mark and his ”two parts rum, one part hot cider, hold the spring water” manatee crew.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Ringmaster

It does matter if the facts are reported incorrectly. You must work for CNN or MSNBC. Everyone knows that a law was broken but making it more dramatic by lying about it doesn't make it more criminal.

The media exaggerates everything - good and bad, liberal and conservative. You're an adult and you ought to be able to adjust and filter out that noise and hyperbole. The core of the story is spot on - that animal was molested and that is against the law. Period.

It will be essential that if the knucklehead who did this is captured and tried in a court of law that the precise, specific details of what s/he did are argued. But in a newspaper piece? Seriously? That verb is what you want to argue about?

[LargeMarge]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

[snip]
Prosecution to the fullest extent of the law is not enough
I say, cut their balls off
Sorry
[snip]

And if she is female, carve out her ovaries!

[SeanPatrick]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Cute, but also irrelevant. According to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission: ...

Except it is relevant. Perfectly so, IMHO. The law that valhalla360 cited is just as real as the manatee law that you and many others have repeatedly quoted. Even if it is outdated and completely ridiculous. It's still on the books.



But that's exactly the point. Was this manatee really harmed? Maybe. Seems to me like it's still swimming around, doing manatee things. Should we fine the person responsible $50,000 and jail them for a year? I think that's a little harsh, given the available evidence.


Don't get me wrong, I think a message should be sent that we, as a society, will not tolerate the harming of animals. But blindly following a law - regardless of the evidence and circumstances - just because it's on the books ... I just don't think that's wise.

[Stress Recess]

No matter, it is against the law to in any way harass a manatee. This person, if caught, needs to be made an example of.
John

[sailingabe41ds]

I think some people need to start thinking about what is important in life and as soon as they start calling others they disagree with nicknames they lost the argument no matter how valid it is.
As for me....which may explain my position on this subject...i am going back to taking care of Covid 19 patients. I have treated 25 sickies...one died. and countless with minimal symptons. Soooo a mammal with a few scratch marks on its back is not going to keep me up all night.

Best to all....

abe

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

Except is is relevant. Perfectly so, IMHO. The law that valhalla360 cited is just as real as the manatee law that you and many others have repeatedly quoted. Even if it is outdated and completely ridiculous. It's still on the books.

Sorry, it's completely irrelevant. The manatee law is not outdated, and is not ridiculous, at least not from a species conservation standpoint.

Originally Posted by SeanPatrick

But that's exactly the point. Was this manatee really harmed? Maybe. Seems to me like it's still swimming around, doing manatee things. Should we fine the person responsible $50,000 and jail them for a year? I think that's a little harsh, given the available evidence.

The law does not require "harm." I'll post the relevant line for you again in case you misread it:

"It is unlawful for any person, at any time, intentionally or negligently, to annoy, molest, harass, or disturb any manatee."

Now, you (and apparently others) make disagree with the law as written. That's fine. There are ways to change laws. But it is utterly irrelevant what some headline writer wrote in describing the event. It's clear that whatever descriptor you choose to use, it meets the level of "annoy, molest, harass, or disturb."

[SeanPatrick]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sorry, it's completely irrelevant. The manatee law is not outdated, and is not ridiculous, at least not from a species conservation standpoint.

Right after I posted that, I realized it was poorly worded and might be taken to imply that I meant the manatee law was outdated, etc. That's not what I meant and I apologize if it came off that way.


However, I believe you may have also missed the point of the rest of my post. Which was that something does indeed need to be done, but it needs to be a reasonable response.